User Tag List

First 678

Results 71 to 77 of 77

  1. #71
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    Actually, it's probably more annoying than just asking. The "do you have time" thing is probably something I do, but I've never minded being ASKED to do something. Not everyone has knee-jerk reactions against the communication styles, and the approach to developement in the area of interaction styles would include becoming more flexible with directing and informing.

    And per the Berens interaction style's model, directing and informing is not about J and P.

    (and I'm still not sure about your mom. How could I be? adjectives aren't enough. An annoyed person will use a combination of annoyed directing and annoyed informing (that almost seems inherently obvious to me) So your mom informed once (yes, the example you gave was one of informing. The question is does she prefer directing or informing? )
    Well, this isn't exactly a thread about my mom. If I wanted others to speculate about her type, I'd start a new thread. I was starting my part of this discussion with the assumption that my typing of her is accurate...meaning I wasn't opening that up for debate (though you may doubt my accuracy...I don't really care).

    And the communication style that is most annoying to you or I or anyone else is obviously a matter of personal taste. I don't mean to imply that any one style is universally more annoying than another.

    And as to the bolded part, what can I say...I agree. Yay for Berens.

    Edit: Although wait...I'm not specifically familiar with Berens. Is that the TJ = directing, NF = informing, and FJ and TP somewhere in the middle business that's already been brought up in this thread?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #72
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Well, this isn't exactly a thread about my mom. If I wanted others to speculate about her type, I'd start a new thread. I was starting my part of this discussion with the assumption that my typing of her is accurate...meaning I wasn't opening that up for debate (though you may doubt my accuracy...I don't really care).

    And the communication style that is most annoying to you or I or anyone else is obviously a matter of personal taste. I don't mean to imply that any one style is universally more annoying than another.

    And as to the bolded part, what can I say...I agree. Yay for Berens.

    Edit: Although wait...I'm not specifically familiar with Berens. Is that the TJ = directing, NF = informing, and FJ and TP somewhere in the middle business that's already been brought up in this thread?
    No, that's a model that Eric B. regulary hawks.

    Per the Interaction Styles Model, NJs and STs prefer directing, SFs and NPs prefer informing.

  3. #73
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,440

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    And per the Berens interaction style's model, directing and informing is not about J and P.
    Well, on the iNtuiting half of the types it is
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
    No, that's a model that Eric B. regulary hawks.

    Per the Interaction Styles Model, NJs and STs prefer directing, SFs and NPs prefer informing.
    "TJ = directing, NP = informing, and FJ and TP somewhere in the middle" is not dealing in Directing and Informing alone, but also takes into consideration Structure and Motive, which are similar, and basically mirror D/Inf. A TJ will be even less responsive (that's the common factor, again) than an STP or NFJ, and probably even more likely to use directing language (while the other TP and FJ are considered Informing rather than directing. Hence those two groups being "inbetween").
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  4. #74
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Well, on the iNtuiting half of the types it is
    "TJ = directing, NP = informing, and FJ and TP somewhere in the middle" is not dealing in Directing and Informing alone, but also takes into consideration Structure and Motive, which are similar, and basically mirror D/Inf. A TJ will be even less responsive (that's the common factor, again) than an STP or NFJ, and probably even more likely to use directing language (while the other TP and FJ are considered Informing rather than directing. Hence those two groups being "inbetween").
    (paraphrased) "The functions...not causal"
    -Linda V. Berens



    what is "responsiveness" again?

    I still suspect that your interest in the idea of "directiveness" arose out of mistaking directing preference with bluntness or something like that. Is that possible?

  5. #75
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,440

    Default

    "Responsiveness" is basically another name for "agreeableness", or "people/task focus", or the original "response time sustain" of the old temperament model. It corresponds to both Directing/Informing (in the Interaction Styles), and Structure/Motive in the Keirseyan temperaments.
    My interest in the idea of "directiveness" came from the desire to know how MBTI really corresponded with other versions of temperament theory using responsiveness and expressiveness. I never said that all bluntness was directiveness, or anything like that, but rather what I have been saying here; that someone with a preference for directing might be more inclined to be blunt, and that someone who is both directing and structure focused might be even moreso inclined. It is but one possible by-product of low responsiveness. Of course, any number of factors can alter behavior some other way. It's all just about inclination or proclivity.

    I also don't understand the comment about functions being non causal.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  6. #76
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    590

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    "Responsiveness" is basically another name for "agreeableness", or "people/task focus", or the original "response time sustain" of the old temperament model. It corresponds to both Directing/Informing (in the Interaction Styles), and Structure/Motive in the Keirseyan temperaments.
    My interest in the idea of "directiveness" came from the desire to know how MBTI really corresponded with other versions of temperament theory using responsiveness and expressiveness. I never said that all bluntness was directiveness, or anything like that, but rather what I have been saying here; that someone with a preference for directing might be more inclined to be blunt, and that someone who is both directing and structure focused might be even moreso inclined. It is but one possible by-product of low responsiveness. Of course, any number of factors can alter behavior some other way. It's all just about inclination or proclivity.

    I also don't understand the comment about functions being non causal.
    What I take it to mean is that just because, say, NTPs prefer informing while STPs prefer directing, while all FPs prefer informing that therefor Ti does not have some kind of standalone value as a 'more directive' function than Fi.
    You can direct or inform through any function. You can focus on motive with Te. You can define your affiliative role with Ti etc...

  7. #77
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,440

    Default

    A T indicates that it is either directive, OR structure focused OR both. And both of those tend to be less responsive than F. We're talking about preference, here (first two functions), not the others. So yes, an FP can use their relief or inferior Te in a motive focused way. But those with dominant or secondary Te will tend to be both structure as well as directive. (That's tend, meaning they will not necessarily always use those communications. Again, you cannot get hung up on literal definitions of "direct or inform" as if those two behaviors comprise all of the characteristics of what is being described).

    I have since added a table to the stuff I had written on D/Inf/Str/M, showing how T, F, J and P relate to responsiveness. You can see it here ERICA vs EISeNFelT (scroll right above the table on factor comparisons this link goes to).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

Similar Threads

  1. [Kiersey] informative and directive, or feeling and thinking
    By Mustafa in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-12-2015, 12:56 PM
  2. [ENFP] Empathy and information (and information overload)
    By garbage in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-28-2012, 06:37 PM
  3. [MBTItm] Early thirties and direction in life
    By musttry in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 06-26-2011, 05:39 PM
  4. Awesome music video, amazing camera work and direction.
    By Abstract Thinker in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-07-2010, 07:43 PM
  5. How do you become informed and knowledgable?
    By swordpath in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 11-12-2009, 04:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO