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  1. #41
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Omission because I forgot but also I think EJs tend to be more openly directive than the Chart the Course group.

    I still am not getting what people are saying when they say directive. All I see are a bunch of rude demands being called directive.
    I totally agree which is why I gave a more subtle comparison. I am not going to be so direct as some of the examples provided.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Omission because I forgot but also I think EJs tend to be more openly directive than the Chart the Course group.

    I still am not getting what people are saying when they say directive. All I see are a bunch of rude demands being called directive.
    Again, "Directing" and "Informing" are just one aspect of the personality factor they are being used to illustrate. The real name of the factor is "People vs Task orientation", or simply "Responsiveness". (Berens even mentions this in her definition of D/Inf). A task-focused person is generally independent and doesn't want much interference (Hence, FIRO calling the factor "Wanted behavior"). So people will be treated almost as objects to be ordered or directed around, to achieve the goal or task. A people-focused person generally likes others more, and values acceptance by and harmony with them. So they will tend to soften or smooth down their requests to others by making them indirect in the form of information (including hypothetical questions). That sounds nicer and less blunt than a command. I know, as sometimes I might be annoyed and feel like yelling an order, but depending on the situation, and who it is I'm talking to; I usually end up phrasing it as information, for fear of upsetting the other person.
    So when you pair this factor with E/I; you get the four Interaction Styles: a task-oriented introvert who just "charts the course" of his tasks; a task-oriented extrovert who approaches people, to be "in charge" of tasks; a people-oriented introvert who is more shy and thus prefers to stay "behind the scenes"; and a people-oriented extrovert who likes to "get things going".
    Structure and Motive is also a form of people/task, with SP's and NF's described as more focused on people (and their motives), and SJ and NT focused on structures (by which tasks are completed). So the TP's and FJ's will have a mixture of people and task focus (hence why I do feel like directing people sometimes).
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  3. #43
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    As usual Eric, you provide a simple but definitive answer to what can be a complicated inquiry. Good job and you are absolutely correct. When reading your response I thought about the ESTP type in being someone who would prefer action to words and the "Chart the Course" types who want the same.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Again, "Directing" and "Informing" are just one aspect of the personality factor they are being used to illustrate. The real name of the factor is "People vs Task orientation", or simply "Responsiveness". (Berens even mentions this in her definition of D/Inf). A task-focused person is generally independent and doesn't want much interference (Hence, FIRO calling the factor "Wanted behavior"). So people will be treated almost as objects to be ordered or directed around, to achieve the goal or task. A people-focused person generally likes others more, and values acceptance by and harmony with them. So they will tend to soften or smooth down their requests to others by making them indirect in the form of information (including hypothetical questions).
    So this means a directive F like like me wouldn't induce severe head trauma when "directing" people. I find the examples of directive communication styles to be more indicative of TJ than FJ. I usually soften my requests which probably sounds informative but it's not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    So when you pair this factor with E/I; you get the four Interaction Styles: a task-oriented introvert who just "charts the course" of his tasks; a task-oriented extrovert who approaches people, to be "in charge" of tasks; a people-oriented introvert who is more shy and thus prefers to stay "behind the scenes"; and a people-oriented extrovert who likes to "get things going".
    Structure and Motive is also a form of people/task, with SP's and NF's described as more focused on people (and their motives), and SJ and NT focused on structures (by which tasks are completed). So the TP's and FJ's will have a mixture of people and task focus (hence why I do feel like directing people sometimes).
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    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  5. #45
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    You're welcome,everyone!

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    So this means a directive F like like me wouldn't induce severe head trauma when "directing" people. I find the examples of directive communication styles to be more indicative of TJ than FJ. I usually soften my requests which probably sounds informative but it's not really.

    Thanks!
    So if you're ExFJ, and directive, then that would eliminate the x, and you could only be ENFJ. (ESFJ is informative. S/N is the "switch" so to speak, that changes the dichotomies that determine D/Inf, Structure/Motive as well as cooperative/pragmatic)

    An essay that really helped me a lot to draw my conclusion was Achilles Tendencies, the Essay. There, you see TJ's described as "the most directive", while FP's are "the most friendly", and TP's and FJ's "somewhere inbetween". The author does not even believe in Keirsey or Berens' model, or the factors associated with them (D/Inf, C/U, Str/M), but I then saw that it was Str/M that paralleled D/Inf, and produced those varying degrees when combined with it (and it helped me complete my comparison of MBTI with the FIRO system).

    So TJ's seem "more directive", because they are both Directive and Structure focused! NFJ's are Directive, yet Motive focused, which softens down the directiveness. SFJ's on the other hand, are Informing, yet Structure-focused. So all FJ's will be mixed like that.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    So this means a directive F like like me wouldn't induce severe head trauma when "directing" people. I find the examples of directive communication styles to be more indicative of TJ than FJ. I usually soften my requests which probably sounds informative but it's not really.
    I did not realize you were reconsidering your type Protean, but I would like to respond by saying that the "X" will be the determining factor specifically for your type since based on Berens, ESFJs are considered informative types with the "Get Things Going" interaction style and the ENFJ would be the directive type shared by other "In Charge" interaction styles. Being behaviorist first and foremost, I believe that Berens/Nardi focused the interaction styles on temperament more than individual cognitive functions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I did not realize you were reconsidering your type Protean, but I would like to respond by saying that the "X" will be the determining factor specifically for your type since based on Berens, ESFJs are considered informative types with the "Get Things Going" interaction style and the ENFJ would be the directive type shared by other "In Charge" interaction styles. Being behaviorist first and foremost, I believe that Berens/Nardi focused the interaction styles on temperament more than individual cognitive functions.
    If I haven't utterly failed in typing those around me, I would say the ESFJ is more "brutal" with requests than the ENFJ. More "This is how it's done, and anyone who disagrees shouldn't even be here."

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    That's the structure-focus of the SJ, and as that shows, it does have a similar effect as directive communication!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    That's the structure-focus of the SJ, and as that shows, it does have a similar effect as directive communication!
    Admittedly I've only once skimmed the whole Directive/Informative/Chart the Course... business, but doesn't that muddle things for the amateur?

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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    As usual Eric, you provide a simple but definitive answer to what can be a complicated inquiry.
    Yeah, Thanks Eric!

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