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  1. #1
    Fight For Freedom FFF's Avatar
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    Default T and F and the Big Five

    MBTI info obtained from HERE.

    T/F -- Thinking/Feeling. Feeling types are compassionate, sensitive people who put the happiness of people first. Thinking type are very logical, independent, accomplished, and know how to do things. However, you could also say Thinking types are heartless, arrogant jerks who treat people like machines, and Feeling types are insipid, dependent, conflict-avoiding basket cases.
    INTRO

    If you've read my previous thread in this section, you should know that research has found a connection between T/F and the Big Five trait Agreeableness (A), but I think it's really mixed up with Neuroticism (N) too. I was gonna go into the judging functions, but I'll save that for later to keep this post short enough so as to not scare anyone off.

    Dissecting the Definition

    Within the above quoted definitions, I see a mix of mostly A and some N (Neuroticism, not iNtuition in this post) that I will indicate by putting the letters in parentheses. I will indicate a lack of A and N for T types with minus signs following the letters.

    Feeling types are compassionate (A), sensitive people (N) who put the happiness of people first (A). Thinking type are very logical (N-), independent (A-), accomplished (generally A- with Conscientiousness denoted by C and extroversion), and know how to do things (C). However, you could also say Thinking types are heartless (A-), arrogant (C) jerks who treat people like machines (A-), and Feeling types are insipid (A and N-), dependent (A), conflict-avoiding (A with one element of introversion) basket cases (N).

    Apparently, feelers are a mix of mostly A with a little N, and thinkers are A-, N-, and C (although, I think conscientiousness is a perfect match for J and shouldn't have a thing to do with T and F).

    EXAMPLE SECTION

    Finally, I will discuss examples of people who are not A and N or A- and N- together. It helps to realize that A is a trait that only shows itself when interacting with people or animals and N is your capacity for negative emotions. Lack of negative emotions doesn't mean happy and jubilant, but simply lacking negative emotions.

    I'm an example of someone A and N-. I'm compassionate and tend to put the happiness of other people first, but strangely, enough, I'm also insensitive. I'm insipid, dependent, and conflict-avoiding. My logical N- side causes me to value logical accuracy and sometimes can get ahead of my Agreeableness. I'll logically explain to you that you're wrong in the most agreeable manner possible, and I won't take it bad if you still don't agree.

    My mom is someone who is A- and N. This really makes for a terrible combination when you have someone who experiences the fears, anxieties, worries, depression, self-consciousness, and anger associated with N and the welcoming of conflict, greater emphasis on one's own needs, and distrust associated with A-. If this type of person is worried or afraid, escaping these emotions are more important to them, than what's beneficial to others. My mom is now overcome with fear that the cat is going to get hurt by going outside to play. So she thinks it's acceptable to keep the cat inside all the time no matter how much he whines to go out and never mind how much boredom and frustration he may be experiencing. Although my mom is A-, she is not very logical at all because she's N.

  2. #2
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I don't get what big five neuroticism is.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #3
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Neuroticism is being emotionally volatile. N+ would be correlated with large up and downs in emotions. At the extreme end, you can get hysteria and bipolar-like symptoms.

  4. #4
    Fight For Freedom FFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Neuroticism is being emotionally volatile. N+ would be correlated with large up and downs in emotions. At the extreme end, you can get hysteria and bipolar-like symptoms.
    Neuroticism is the capacity for negative emotions and includes six facets:

    1. Anxiety
    2. Anger
    3. Depression
    4. Self-consciousness
    5. Immoderation (hard to resist over-indulgence)
    6. Vulnerability

    One author compares it to a fire alarm to illustrate that systems high neuroticism can be a good thing and being too can be bad. A fire alarm that's too sensitive might go off when it shouldn't and annoy you. A fire alarm that's too insensitive might not go off until the plastic is melting on the damn thing. By then most of your house is gone, and if you were sleeping, you probably died from the poisons released by the fire.

    The range of positive emotions is found in the cheerfulness facet of Extraversion. They're two separate sets of circuitry. When you're really introverted and really lacking in neuroticism, you have a sort of Ben Stiller Stein (the Visine, "wow" guy) personality that seems to be lacking in all emotions.

    One day I'd like to describe and discuss each Big Five trait in depth. I think I'd start with Extraversion and then go on to Neuroticism.

  5. #5
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    When you're really introverted and really lacking in neuroticism, you have a sort of Ben Stiller (the Visine, "wow" guy) personality that seems to be lacking in all emotions.

    One day I'd like to describe and discuss each Big Five trait in depth. I think I'd start with Extraversion and then go on to Neuroticism.
    That'd be Ben Stein, not Ben Stiller. There's quite a difference, there.

    So to be happy, you have to be extroverted?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #6
    Fight For Freedom FFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    That'd be Ben Stein, not Ben Stiller. There's quite a difference, there.

    So to be happy, you have to be extroverted?
    Ouch, there IS a big difference. It just shows my lack of celebrity knowledge.

    In a sense, yes. The opposite of the happiness that comes with extroversion is not sadness, it's just a lack off that happiness. Most people have at least some capacity for these feelings I forgot to also mention that a lot of positive social emotions go along with extroversion too and have to do with other facets. So you have four results based on the extremes.

    E and N- = Lots of positive emotions and few negative ones. Optimistic.
    E and N = Lots of emotions all over the place. Inconsistent.
    E- and N- = A lack of emotion. Realistic.
    E- and N = Lots of negative emotions and few positive ones. Pessimistic.

    In the Introvert Advantage it mentions two pleasure systems, one that runs on dopamine and one that runs on acetylcholine. The dopamine system is involved in simple quick pleasures like eating good food and sex. The acetylcholine system takes longer to activate and probably produces a deeper, more subtle enjoyment. Introverts are more likely to make use of the acetylcholine system than extroverts are, although they may not use it more than the dopamine system. I wish I had more info on this.

    Eddie Murphy is a good example of an extrovert (Donkey from Shrek). So an introvert might be happy or content, but just not Eddie Murphy happy. TYPc's very own Whatever, is also a good example of someone really extroverted.

  7. #7
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    So the strange euphoria that one gets from wanting to throw one's self into a project doesn't count as happiness?

    Weird.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #8
    Fight For Freedom FFF's Avatar
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    Don't get too serious about terminology. It's definitely something pleasurable whether you call it happiness or not. It seems like it would come from your J. Generally, the extroversion happiness is like a frequently positive, upbeat mood.

  9. #9
    WTF is this dude saying? A Schnitzel's Avatar
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    This is a good topic.
    Something that I've been wondering about for a while.

  10. #10
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    Don't get too serious about terminology. It's definitely something pleasurable whether you call it happiness or not. It seems like it would come from your J. Generally, the extroversion happiness is like a frequently positive, upbeat mood.
    But it's still a positive emotion, right? And that's under E, as you've explained. I'm still confused. I mean, having intensely positive yet intensely private emotions may not exactly yield a chipper mood, but it won't look like Ben Stein and be 'realistic', either.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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