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  1. #1
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Default Function Order : Clarification.

    Is it not true that Ti and Te are both T?

    If I gave this as the standard format Uc
    fUnction and context.

    Ergo Ti is T with a preference for applying it introvertedly and so on.

    Is it not therefore true that an INTPs function order is TNSF?

    Would I be correct in saying that there are only four functions listed in a types function order because of what it is describing, it does not require the other four?

    Surely if the order is describing the order of preference for the four "functions" (as outlined above not in the normal subdivided Ti and Te sense) and making note of where the subject prefers to apply the function then noting the order of preference in which they use functions in a context they don't prefer is redundant.

    OR am I barking up the wrong tree?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    OR am I barking up the wrong T?
    fixed!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #3
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I completely agree. Takes a bunch of the confusion out, since it's misleading to think of Te and Ti as different in the same way as Te and Si or something.

    "Order" is kind of a strong word to use, since it implies something about strength or ability of usage. Maybe just say something like, if you're an INTP, you have relationship w with T, x with N, y with S, and z with F. (different relationships with each function.)

    Order is just 1 subbed for w, 2 subbed for x, 3 subbed for y, and 4 subbed for z, but you could potentially change around the last three and maintain the same type.

    ^because Nocap would say -- why TNSF and not TNFS?

  4. #4
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Is it not true that Ti and Te are both T?

    If I gave this as the standard format Uc
    fUnction and context.

    Ergo Ti is T with a preference for applying it introvertedly and so on.

    Is it not therefore true that an INTPs function order is TNSF?

    Would I be correct in saying that there are only four functions listed in a types function order because of what it is describing, it does not require the other four?

    Surely if the order is describing the order of preference for the four "functions" (as outlined above not in the normal subdivided Ti and Te sense) and making note of where the subject prefers to apply the function then noting the order of preference in which they use functions in a context they don't prefer is redundant.

    OR am I barking up the wrong tree?
    technically you are correct. when you add in introversion and extroversion as directions, you are completely right.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

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  5. #5
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    you didnt just compare my ingenious Ti-ness to that wannabe thing Te's have, did you ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    technically you are correct. when you add in introversion and extroversion as directions, you are completely right.
    Actually when you add the attitude it makes for the opposite. Ti like all introverted functions are subjective. Te like all extraverted functions are objective. This does not mean objective in the sense of detaching but that Ti makes us focus on the inner world and Te on the objective. Jung says:
    Just as Darwin might possibly represent the normal extraverted thinking type, so we might point to Kant as a counter-example of the normal introverted thinking type. The former speaks with facts; the latter appeals to the subjective factor. Darwin ranges over the wide fields of objective facts, while Kant restricts himself to a critique of knowledge in general. But suppose a Cuvier be contrasted with a Nietzsche: the antithesis becomes even sharper.

    The introverted thinking type is characterized by a priority of the thinking I have just described. Like his [p. 485] extraverted parallel, he is decisively influenced by ideas; these, however, have their origin, not in the objective data but in the subjective foundation. Like the extravert, he too will follow his ideas, but in the reverse direction: inwardly not outwardly.
    So theyre only similar in that they are both thinking. However Fe is closer to Te and Fi to Ti.and so on through all of the cognitive functions. In essence the paring is more like Je,Pe,Ji,Pi.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Actually when you add the attitude it makes for the opposite. Ti like all introverted functions are subjective. Te like all extraverted functions are objective. This does not mean objective in the sense of detaching but that Ti makes us focus on the inner world and Te on the objective. Jung says:So theyre only similar in that they are both thinking. However Fe is closer to Te and Fi to Ti.and so on through all of the cognitive functions. In essence the paring is more like Je,Pe,Ji,Pi.
    Oh thanks, after the Jung excerpt, everything will be clear to everyone. Haha, I'm just kidding.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Actually when you add the attitude it makes for the opposite. Ti like all introverted functions are subjective. Te like all extraverted functions are objective. This does not mean objective in the sense of detaching but that Ti makes us focus on the inner world and Te on the objective. Jung says:So theyre only similar in that they are both thinking. However Fe is closer to Te and Fi to Ti.and so on through all of the cognitive functions. In essence the paring is more like Je,Pe,Ji,Pi.
    i was saying he was correct in the order and am aware of the Ti Te difference, and you (well... jung) are correct, thank you
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

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  9. #9
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Actually when you add the attitude it makes for the opposite. Ti like all introverted functions are subjective. Te like all extraverted functions are objective. This does not mean objective in the sense of detaching but that Ti makes us focus on the inner world and Te on the objective. Jung says:So theyre only similar in that they are both thinking. However Fe is closer to Te and Fi to Ti.and so on through all of the cognitive functions. In essence the paring is more like Je,Pe,Ji,Pi.
    This makes no sense... Ti makes you focus internally? I thought Ti implied it was used internally?

    Fe is closer to Te? Closer than what, Ti?

    Te and Ti are both T are they not? Does Te have an attribute which Ti does not? A person who uses Ti lots would they not usually develop Te alongside it before they would develop Fi or Fe?
    (Develop as in conscious control not strength or prevelance of use.)

    Could you please go into a little more explanaition?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #10
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    This makes no sense... Ti makes you focus internally? I thought Ti implied it was used internally?

    Fe is closer to Te? Closer than what, Ti?

    Te and Ti are both T are they not? Does Te have an attribute which Ti does not? A person who uses Ti lots would they not usually develop Te alongside it before they would develop Fi or Fe?
    (Develop as in conscious control not strength or prevelance of use.)

    Could you please go into a little more explanaition?
    This is really not a slight toward you Xander and I purposely did not respond to your inquiry on this thread you started, but how can you have over three thousand posts and be asking some of the most basic principles of type? I started to respond in detail to your inquiry but realized that if you do not get it after all of your posting then I will be doing you a disservice.

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