Function Order : Clarification.

[Salomé]

Xander,
Did you see this?

 

[Xander]

---see above---it's worth it---honest---

Eric... you married yet?

 

[Xander]

Xander,
Did you see this?

Have you seen THIS?

It's a size 9, the most powerful shoe in the world. It's capable of kicking your sporen clean off. Do you feel lucky? PUNK!

Me and Jack (that still sounds very Pirate's of the Carribean to my mind) are on different tracks. Anyhow I posted on that thread. I know you're not really paying attention but you could at least fake it better!!

 

[Salomé]

Have you seen THIS?
It's a size 9 the most powerful shoe in the world. It's capable of kicking your sporen clean off. Do you feel lucky? PUNK!

Me and Jack (that still sounds very Pirate's of the Carribean to my mind) are on different tracks. Anyhow I posted on that thread. I know you're not really paying attention but you could at least fake it better!!

LOL!
No, I meant that post of mine - didn't it take you to the brain hemisphere stuff?

 

[Athenian200]

Is it not true that Ti and Te are both T?

If I gave this as the standard format Uc
fUnction and context.

Ergo Ti is T with a preference for applying it introvertedly and so on.

Is it not therefore true that an INTPs function order is TNSF?

Would I be correct in saying that there are only four functions listed in a types function order because of what it is describing, it does not require the other four?

Surely if the order is describing the order of preference for the four "functions" (as outlined above not in the normal subdivided Ti and Te sense) and making note of where the subject prefers to apply the function then noting the order of preference in which they use functions in a context they don't prefer is redundant.

OR am I barking up the wrong tree?

It seems to me that it depends on how you view the nature of Thinking. If you see Te and Ti as different aspects of the same basic thing, and think that skill in one has a reasonable connection/correlation to skill in the other, then what you're saying makes sense.

If someone believes that Te and Ti are irreconcilably different functions and work on different principles, then they will likely go with traditional ordering (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe, Te, Ni, Se, Fi). If they believe that they are different applications of the same basic essence, then it should go (Ti, Ne, Te, Ni, Si, Fe, Se, Fi) or something rather close.

Basically, I think if you're right, then INTPs prefer both variations of N and T to both variations of S and F, although they most prefer Ti and Ne.

 

[Xander]

LOL!
No, I meant that post of mine - didn't it take you to the brain hemisphere stuff?

Yeah yeah, smart people live in the northern hemisphere... we know this...



I'm dubious about these "scientists" and stuff. They claim far too much certainty for a breed that can't find the square root of -1 nor explain gravity.

 

[Xander]

It seems to me that it depends on how you view the nature of Thinking. If you see Te and Ti as different aspects of the same basic thing, and think that skill in one has a reasonable connection/correlation to skill in the other, then what you're saying makes sense.

If someone believes that Te and Ti are irreconcilably different functions and work on different principles, then they will likely go with traditional ordering (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe, Te, Ni, Se, Fi). If they believe that they are different applications of the same basic essence, then it should go (Ti, Ne, Te, Ni, Si, Fe, Se, Fi) or something rather close.

Belief? That's it.. go change you name. I humbly suggest Anathema.

Basically, I think if you're right, then INTPs prefer both variations of N and T to both variations of S and F, although they most prefer Ti and Ne.

Where the hell have you been?


That's a much simpler way of getting people close to what I'm trying to get at!

 

[Eric B]

Eric... you married yet?

Sorry, don't get that.

 

[Xander]

Sorry, don't get that.

Well I'm not proposing on a forum. You can stuff right off with that idea!!!

 

[Salomé]

I'm dubious about these "scientists" and stuff. They claim far too much certainty for a breed that can't find the square root of -1 nor explain gravity.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's certain. But it is plausible at least, don't you think? Or are you agreeing with Jack and saying the Ti/Te distinction is nonsense? I'm not sure I'm understanding the issue here.

Not all brains are created equal - this much I'm sure of.

 

[Xander]

I don't think anyone is suggesting it's certain. But it is plausible at least, don't you think? Or are you agreeing with Jack and saying the Ti/Te distinction is nonsense? I'm not sure I'm understanding the issue here.

I think the Te/Ti distinction is not as important as many people make out. As Eric put it wonderfully (even if he is playing coy now) it's more a difference of focus than function. Focus is a factor but the functions themselves deserve treating as important seperately. I've seen far too much blx written by people pontificating about Fe vs Fi and other such rubbish. There is no versus. It's all F.

Not all brains are created equal - this much I'm sure of.

It's okay... I'll still speak to you even if you are stupid. I'm not prejudiced.

 

[entropie]

What about ?:

Ego:
1.Leading Function
2.Creative Function

Super-Ego
3.Role Function
4.Vulnerable Function

Super-Id:
5.Suggestive Function
6.Mobilizing Function

Id:
7.Ignoring Function
8.Demonstrative Function

Wherein the Ego and the Super-Ego block contradict each other with function type but not direction (I or E) and Super-Id and Id are a negative copy of the first 2 blocks, starting with the 4th function.

That makes ENTp:

1.Ne 2.Ti
3.Se 4.Fi
5.Si 6.Fe
7.Ni 8.Te

----------

That's a good invention isnt it ? Wait I stole that somewhere

 

[Athenian200]

Belief? That's it.. go change you name. I humbly suggest Anathema.

You misunderstand... I didn't say there wasn't a truth, I just meant that there was no decisive proof of this working one way or another, and that people could find justification for whichever one they believe in. In fact, all the different perspectives on how they work may well show different underlying truths that cannot be reasonably reconciled inside a single paradigm, at least not at the level at which people currently communicate.

Where the hell have you been?


That's a much simpler way of getting people close to what I'm trying to get at!

Ah, some member on here intimidated me into running away because I hurt them somehow, and I feared reprisal. I'm hoping they've forgotten about me. If not, I guess I'll just have to deal with it.

I suppose it was helpful, then? Glad to hear that.

 

[Xander]

What about ?:
----------

That's a good invention isnt it ? Wait I stole that somewhere

Smoking kills.

This includes cigar smoking.

You misunderstand... I didn't say there wasn't a truth, I just meant that there was no decisive proof of this working one way or another, and that people could find justification for whichever one they believe in.

Awww.....

You get a triple A star in comforting NTs

In fact, all the different perspectives on how they work may well show different underlying truths that cannot be reasonably reconciled inside a single paradigm, at least not at the level at which people currently communicate.

Easy is for other's to work on. I'm after the BIG kills

ie I'm trying to prove that it can and should be done..... my way..

Ah, some member on here intimidated me into running away because I hurt them somehow, and I feared reprisal. I'm hoping they've forgotten about me. If not, I guess I'll just have to deal with it.

I was kidding... I didn't expect a factual response..

Ah well if anyone thinks you're a meanie I can tell them with 100% certainty. Yes. Yes you are... but never with forethought.. :newwink

 

[Salomé]

It seems to me that it depends on how you view the nature of Thinking. If you see Te and Ti as different aspects of the same basic thing, and think that skill in one has a reasonable connection/correlation to skill in the other, then what you're saying makes sense.

If someone believes that Te and Ti are irreconcilably different functions and work on different principles, then they will likely go with traditional ordering (Ti, Ne, Si, Fe, Te, Ni, Se, Fi). If they believe that they are different applications of the same basic essence, then it should go (Ti, Ne, Te, Ni, Si, Fe, Se, Fi) or something rather close.

Basically, I think if you're right, then INTPs prefer both variations of N and T to both variations of S and F, although they most prefer Ti and Ne.

Belief? What's belief got to do with anything? Maybe Victor was right....

What would be required for proof?


EDIT. Xander just said pretty much the same thing.

Even if these things can't be proven in any real sense at this point in time, it should be possible to derive criteria which could prove/disprove each scenario.

 

[entropie]

The socionics model is actually a good one, better than MBTI.

It tends to describe one or two things better for me where MBTI lacked making sense.

Try it out: Functions - Wikisocion

 

[Xander]

Belief? What's belief got to do with anything? Maybe Victor was right....

What would be required for proof?


EDIT. Xander just said pretty much the same thing.

Even if these things can't be proven in any real sense at this point in time, it should be possible to derive criteria which could prove/disprove each scenario.

NT Down!! NT DOWN!!!

MEDIC!!!!


( )

The socionics model is actually a good one, better than MBTI.

It tends to describe one or two things better for me where MBTI lacked making sense.

Try it out: Functions - Wikisocion

Dude, I'm trying to get MBTI's functions to make sense. One thing at a time!!

Jeez!

 

[entropie]

Dont try to hard, they really only make sense if you start benting the system. But if you take another system into account, you will get more satisfieing results

 

[Xander]

Dont try to hard, they really only make sense if you start benting the system. But if you take another system into account, you will get more satisfieing results

Ah but, young Jedi, there is no spoon.

 

[entropie]