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  1. #101
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I don't think I meant cognitive wiring alone. I meant that a person hears what they want/need to hear. Probably similar to your "all is denial..." statement.

  2. #102
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Yes.
    MBTI is correct.
    After the fact.

    The dichotomy is not after the fact.
    You have the information.
    Go back.

  3. #103
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Mr Wildcat,

    Are you in fact proposing the following

    Ti = T1 + i
    Te = T2 + e
    T1<>T2
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #104
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Mr Wildcat,

    Are you in fact proposing the following

    Ti = T1 + i
    Te = T2 + e
    T1<>T2
    The dichotomy has already taken place.

    As much as T includes I is Ti.
    Dolls do not add to the number of girls.
    Diverse kind does not add in kind.

    How much of the dichotomy we perceive at a time?
    Fifty per cent.

    The other half is beyond the pale.

    123
    246
    369

    1 + 3 + 3 + 9
    2 + 6 + 2 + 6

    The key is in the lock.
    Last edited by wildcat; 12-06-2008 at 05:29 AM.

  5. #105
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    Thanks for this.. it was really informative.

    A quote near the beginning of Gifts Differing helped me to understand why there might be differentiation between extraverted and introverted functions:

    "Introverts are reluctant to use the dominant process on the outer world more than necessary because of the predictable results. If the dominant process, which is the most adult and conscientious process, is used on outer things, it will involve the introverts in more extraversion than they can handle, and such involvement will cost them privacy and peace."

    This clicked with me because, if Te is my dominant and best trait, then Ti might bring me "more introversion" than I can handle. While I can exercise Ti well in analysis and problem solving, I also tend to overanalyze when left to my own devices.. which could be Ti run amok. That's had devastating effects on me in the past, and it's something that I've actively needed to control.

    Anyway, that might be a fundamental explanation well below the scope of anyone on this board who'd be reading it, but maybe it'll help clarify why some might differentiate between, say, Ti and Te

    I'd actually be very interested in hearing how others have used or misused their primary trait on the "opposite" environment! Maybe a topic for another thread?

    Edit: Thread spinoff!

  6. #106
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Thanks for this.. it was really informative.

    A quote near the beginning of Gifts Differing helped me to understand why there might be differentiation between extraverted and introverted functions:

    "Introverts are reluctant to use the dominant process on the outer world more than necessary because of the predictable results. If the dominant process, which is the most adult and conscientious process, is used on outer things, it will involve the introverts in more extraversion than they can handle, and such involvement will cost them privacy and peace."

    This clicked with me because, if Te is my dominant and best trait, then Ti might bring me "more introversion" than I can handle. While I can exercise Ti well in analysis and problem solving, I also tend to overanalyze when left to my own devices.. which could be Ti run amok. That's had devastating effects on me in the past, and it's something that I've actively needed to control.

    Anyway, that might be a fundamental explanation well below the scope of anyone on this board who'd be reading it, but maybe it'll help clarify why some might differentiate between, say, Ti and Te

    I'd actually be very interested in hearing how others have used or misused their primary trait on the "opposite" environment! Maybe a topic for another thread?
    For me, that would be using my iNtuition extravertedly, (not using the Ni notation purposely because of the topic of this thread ) that would "cost [me] privacy and peace". I can definitely relate to that. I don't feel free to extravert my iNtuition very often.

    PS: It WOULD be a good topic for a thread.

  7. #107
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay I'm going to try once more to adequately explain and that's it.

    When is T not T? When it is Te? When it is Ti?
    If neither then T is always T regardless of where you use it. If you believe otherwise then fine, please continue in your thinking. Who knows I may join you at some stage, but not today.
    Look at it this way. There are vehicles, then there are moving vehicles. Jung, Myers-Briggs and their enthusiasts have selected to focus solely on the vehicles that are moving, not those which are not. The first thing all type enthusiasts state is that when discussing thinking/feeling, extraversion/introversion, etc in type, then itís not the same as the traditional sense. So itís a mistake to just call it thinking as it would be to believe that feeling equates to emotions when discussing type.

    Back on point, a moving vehicle (as being considered by Jung, Myers, etc) can only be a moving vehicle when itís either going forward (Ti) or in reverse (Te). Otherwise itís not, and there ends the story. In the same sense you cannot call it thinking when it comes to type since it must have energy to live by either extraverting for its energy or introverting. Otherwise there is no life and thinking alone in type does not exist. Thatís what type is about in my humble opinion.

  8. #108
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Back on point, a moving vehicle (as being considered by Jung, Myers, etc) can only be a moving vehicle when itís either going forward (Ti) or in reverse (Te). Otherwise itís not, and there ends the story. In the same sense you cannot call it thinking when it comes to type since it must have energy to live by either extraverting for its energy or introverting. Otherwise there is no life and thinking alone in type does not exist. Thatís what type is about in my humble opinion.
    Except no one can reliably tell you whether the car is moving forward or backward at any given moment. Only that it's moving, if you're lucky. Therefore the e/i separation is useless.

  10. #110
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Look at it this way. There are vehicles, then there are moving vehicles. Jung, Myers-Briggs and their enthusiasts have selected to focus solely on the vehicles that are moving, not those which are not. The first thing all type enthusiasts state is that when discussing thinking/feeling, extraversion/introversion, etc in type, then itís not the same as the traditional sense. So itís a mistake to just call it thinking as it would be to believe that feeling equates to emotions when discussing type.

    Back on point, a moving vehicle (as being considered by Jung, Myers, etc) can only be a moving vehicle when itís either going forward (Ti) or in reverse (Te). Otherwise itís not, and there ends the story. In the same sense you cannot call it thinking when it comes to type since it must have energy to live by either extraverting for its energy or introverting. Otherwise there is no life and thinking alone in type does not exist. Thatís what type is about in my humble opinion.
    I agree 100%. The problem I'm attempting to address is that a car going in reverse is still as much of a car as one going forwards. The direction does not change the object but merely note in which direction it is most often travelling. It also never rules out that a car has the capability to move in both directions.

    If a car is most often reversing does this state anything about it's capability to go forwards? Obviously the answer is no.

    Of course this isn't including anaylsis of certain perceived patterns and probabilities but that I would assert is more of an individual case analysis and isn't really reliable enough for broad generalisations.

    Anyhow to continue with your example...
    If a person prefers to travel by boat and not by car then they have a B preference... yes. The direction they most often travel in when travelling on said boat does not alter that they prefer a boat and it does not infer that they like a different kind of boat to those who most often travel forwards. The two issues are separate.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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