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View Poll Results: Is the four function model valid?

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  • Yes

    11 39.29%
  • No

    10 35.71%
  • Ambivalent (explain in thread)

    7 25.00%
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  1. #21
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I'll answer that question in a moment -- once we establish this:
    What is the use of a correlation in a typology?
    Perhaps I'm off my mark, but it was always my assumption that the aim of a typology is to enhance individual insight. The first two functions allow for us to reach that, because they're present enough to have a very strong bearing on behavior and personality.

    Tertiary and Inferior on the other hand -- the rare birds; the ones happening along as the Primaries see fit -- don't make a legitimate impact on the insight, and studying a correlation (better named a confirmed bias, as you so aptly did) would inevitably encroach on observation: the very foundation of knowledge seeking.
    Yes that is what I was trying to get at. I think ultimately working on your dominant and auxillary is your best bet. Those tertiary and inferior are too subtle to ultimately notice when you look at the totality of a person.

    If you're arguing about the validity of using them or possibly even referencing them I can agree. Dissonance explained better about the correlation if you were to take the analysis to that extent. I honestly think, though, that I've worked on them moderately enough to the point where I don't feel extremely awkward using them. Does it define me at all, no, but you will see subtle undertones.

    On the other end if you were to type based solely on those last two functions I think it would be somewhat disingenuous because they really don't give you an accurate portrayal of who a person is. At the same time depending on who you are you may have different functions in that slot that serve to color your personality
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  2. #22
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    No dude, Aimahn, I'm saying, Ne and Ti are the only sure ones for ENTP.
    Maybe Te will be stronger than Fe. Maybe Se will be stronger than Si.

    Who knows?
    Four function modelists certainly don't.
    we fukin won boys

  3. #23
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    No dude, Aimahn, I'm saying, Ne and Ti are the only sure ones for ENTP.
    Maybe Te will be stronger than Fe. Maybe Se will be stronger than Si.

    Who knows?
    Four function modelists certainly don't.
    Yea something seems to be definitly wrong, in the end not every type is like every type. Maybe the 8 function system gives a broader variety of interpreting why. While a 2 function system would lack precision. Dont know
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #24
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I'm arguing on the basis that those last two aren't set in stone. I guess by that end I'm somewhat disregarding the four function model, so yes I guess that's where your disagreement and opposition come from. I think that you can work on tertiary and inferior functions though.

    Do you not agree?

    Whether or not they are the same across ALL specific types is something I don't fully agree with. In my case I think I built up specifically Si and Fe.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  5. #25
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    Food for thought (I've said something similar before, like months ago):

    Take an individual you know well, and know the type of. Assign two functions to tertiary and inferior to them, which are NOT listed in their MBTT or Socionics function order. If you are worth your weight in cold semen, you'll be able to construct a "rational" argument as to why these functions are valid. This makes traditional functional analysis bunk.

  6. #26
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Four function model? Pile of bile.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #27
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Yea something seems to be definitly wrong, in the end not every type is like every type. Maybe the 8 function system gives a broader variety of interpreting why. While a 2 function system would lack precision. Dont know
    Two function model wouldn't lack precision. It's the only one that leaves room for precision.
    The other six are left variable depending entirely on the individual.
    In reality, all eight are variable. But the first two we use to decide what to call them.
    It's like calling something that blends a blender.
    By this analogy, what the four function modelists are doing is calling something that only surely blends a blender/slicer.
    Well maybe the blender does slice, but on the other hand, it doesn't have to. It might blend my mashing things together, rather than by cutting them up.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #28
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    I can agree with that. I was mainly arguing that the functions that I have built up just so happend to align with those prescribed for INTPs in the four function model. Environmental factors such as school most definitely have an effect on the tertiary and inferior. Other INTPs most likely have a different orientation than I, maybe even drastically so.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  9. #29
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    What?
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    I can agree with that. I was mainly arguing that the functions that I have built up to aligned with those prescribed for INTPs in the four function model. Environmental factors such as school most definitely have an effect on the tertiary and inferior.
    THERE IS NO TERTIARY/INFERIOR! END IT! NOW!

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