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  1. #41
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3rnWSLqV3R0"]Ti's end ?![/YOUTUBE]
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    If you call a cat a dog, and everyone believes you, then for all intents and purposes, the cat is a dog. 'Dog' will begin to refer to the similarities between what was formerly known as 'cats' and 'dogs' rather than your preconceived concept of 'dog.' It is therefore no longer incorrect but merely a change of terminology.
    Yes...How is this a disagreement? That's what Jung did, and many people believe him.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Um, what? Which judging function has elements of input? And perceiving does not technically mean input anyway. Only sensing literally takes in information.
    The best example is Ni. It's more processing than input. Low input, High processing (therefore High output).

    Sensing is unaltered input, present or past, and Intuition is "distorted" input..."before" processing by Thinking or Feeling.

  4. #44
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Yes...How is this a disagreement? That's what Jung did, and many people believe him.
    But there's nothing to disbelieve because it's an artificial construct. Because of this, whether it was a 'misunderstanding' is of no importance.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    But there's nothing to disbelieve because it's an artificial construct. Because of this, whether it was a 'misunderstanding' is of no importance.
    My argument is that while his functions can describe mental action in a way, they are too variable in subjects and too poorly defined to classify subjects using them as a tool.

  6. #46
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    The best example is Ni. It's more processing than input. Low input, High processing (therefore High output).

    Sensing is unaltered input, present or past, and Intuition is "distorted" input..."before" processing by Thinking or Feeling.
    Yeah, intuition is 100% processing technically. Sensing is mostly processing too.

    Again, the distinction between judging/perceiving is conscious vs. unconscious. If it's unconscious, it's either sensing or intuition; if it's conscious, it's either thinking or feeling.

    If you really think about conscious assessment, it really boils down to good/bad (F) and true/false (T). "Ideas" come from intuition and "visualizing" comes from sensing.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Yeah, intuition is 100% processing technically. Sensing is mostly processing too.

    Again, the distinction between judging/perceiving is conscious vs. unconscious. If it's unconscious, it's either sensing or intuition; if it's conscious, it's either thinking or feeling.

    If you really think about conscious assessment, it really boils down to good/bad (F) and true/false (T).
    The way I'm defining them, there has to be a difference between P and J. All brain action is processing, technically, of course. I should say Input and Output from now on, and Ni is mostly Output. Just like Thinking under my system, which is why I classify INTJ and INFJ as Judging Primaries. (Thinking/Feeling)

  8. #48
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I am glad my INFJ girlfriend has not the need to give me contra on everything I say. She has the little thing, I guess people call it wisdom or ignorance I do not know

    [YOUTUBE="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kRa3BU5bl-s"]Combichrist[/YOUTUBE]
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  9. #49
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    My argument is that while his functions can describe mental action in a way, they are too variable in subjects and too poorly defined to classify subjects using them as a tool.
    And my argument is that your system is about as useful as a Coinstar Machine to a numismatist.

    So we should probably just leave it at that.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #50
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    The way I'm defining them, there has to be a difference between P and J. All brain action is processing, technically, of course. I should say Input and Output from now on, and Ni is mostly Output. Just like Thinking under my system, which is why I classify INTJ and INFJ as Judging Primaries. (Thinking/Feeling)
    You're having definition problems; you're not understanding what I'm saying because you're clinging to definitions.

    @"Ni is mostly output" -- you are right (although I have no idea why you're saying Ni specifically instead of just Intuition). Sensing is mostly "output" too (the way you're using the word at least).

    Input/Output is a silly distinction to make anyway, so little is actually input. Input isn't interesting. Cognitive processes are about processing!

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