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  1. #31
    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    I want some of this supposed "S" advantage in real life.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    though off topic and i am unbiased, many regard tolkien as an INFP
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    He was much too wordy and descriptive of external elements to be an INFP, I think. INFXes like to boil things down in my opinion. Two examples are Terry Brooks and J. K. Rowling. The former is INFp, the latter INFj.
    Isn´t mlittrell talking about MBTI and Eldanen talking about Socionics? (By the way, adding some partiality, from what I know of it I have no good words for Socionics).

    Edit: Tolkien, for what I know of him, he has been some kind of recluse( maybe classically INTJ, like Newton) but from what I've heard he can be characterized as a "bad writer" for describing so many details. Doesn't sound N-like. And INFPs are typically said to be talented writers.
    Last edited by Llewellyn; 11-10-2008 at 09:25 AM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    im going off of what the title says so yes, MBTI

    and ya Tolkien has oodles of details
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

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  4. #34
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    I've created a new thread for Tolkien to avoid going further off topic. I think there has been some unfounded speculation and some questionable statements made here, but it didn't seem like the appropriate place for me to provide detailed evidence or arguments to the contrary. If anyone who has voiced an opinion would like to repeat themselves on the new thread, feel free to do so!

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...6-tolkien.html

  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldanen View Post
    Two examples are Terry Brooks and J. K. Rowling.
    Terry Brooks is pretty quintessential INFP (mbti). I think it's a great comparison study to look at The Sword of Shannara (his Tolkien knock-off) compared to Tolkien's work, and you can see the difference between T vs. F in what is focused on and what drama plays out in the characters. Also, how much of a focus "logic" has versus dramatic necessity.

    I'm not sure about Rowlings, she seemed more INFP to me.

    Guy Gavriel Kay is another fantasy author I believe to be INFJ. Lemony Snickett, too -- a good Ti function at work there underlying the Ni+Fe approach to the stories. Stephen R. Donaldson, I think, falls into that same category... strong Ti thinking that supports the often-fatalist and complex/realistic view of the world even while aiming for more.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #36
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    I agree with the OP.

    Another real world example is that those with an intuitive preference are probably more inclined to prefer academia and research.

  7. #37
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    Actually, no. He equates "novel" with intuition, and "tried and true" with sensing on the test in the front of the book. It's really a frustrating test, because basically you aren't going to find ANY SPs thinking they need to stick to tried and true ways of doing things. SPs don't care whether what they're doing is the traditional way or their own way -- being utilitarian and practical, we go for whatever way we think is going to get the job done most impressively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    I think the dichotomy of the particular question on the test contrasted "probing for possibilities" against "nailing things down." He considered it P versus J. I know this because I'm holding Please Understand Me II in my hands.
    Uber, I think you two are discussing different things, but are closely interwoven in the SP type. Novel in meaning new or tried and true which Keirsey sees as a S/N matter, and open to possibilities or closure which is J/P. I think that Dr. Berens says it best in describing Artisans, Se, Improviser types:
    To improvise is to vary your actions to get a result using whatever is at hand. In an ever changing environment, improvising is greatly needed.
    This seems to say it all in that SP types will be open to varied ways of handling a matter expediently to get a desired impact and instant results. Both allow SPs to see possibilities and to bring closure. As for your example, this can be misleading for a SP type since I may infer this to mean seeing immediate results from my actions. Possibilities are meaningless without some practical application. For this reason when I first took the Temperament Sorter years ago, I continued to type as INTJ and still find myself having more commonalities with INT types than SPs, especially ESPs.

  8. #38
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarah View Post
    First, there's no way of knowing how many of those people who test as intuitives really do prefer intuition. Pretty much everyone I know who has encountered the MBTI, Keirsey's book, or any of the knockoff tests on the internet thinks he or she is an Intuitive first, and only later comes to the realization that maybe they prefer Sensing, once they've bothered to read about temperament and contemplate which pattern really fits them more. It's ridiculous how often people who prefer Sensing (particularly SPs) are strongly attracted to the answers on type tests that are supposed to be linked with having a preference for Intuition.
    Agreed, which is why an article I read years ago about Se types confusing themselves as intuitives made me see type differently. I was one of those who initially thought that I was INTJ from Keirsey's Sorter, then mistyped as INTP when taking the Step II. This article delves into the confusion for SP types. One reason for the confusion is the inability to distinguish Jung having different types of sensing and intuition which makes Se similar to Ne and Si to Ni. A snipet of the article says:
    Jung described each of the mental processes in terms of their attitudes. It wasn't just Sensing, it was Sensing in the extraverted attitude or in the introverted attitude. Functions used in the extraverted attitude have a here and now quality to them. Thus both extraverted Sensing and extraverted iNtuiting are in-the-moment perceptions. When we engage in either of them, our energy goes to either seeking more sensory input (Se) or to interacting to develop more ideas (Ne). In both processes, the focus is on the possibilities and opportunities. With extraverted Sensing(Se), the focus is on the immediate, sensory possibilities and options for action. With extraverted iNtuiting(Ne), it is on the envisioned possibilities, new ideas and meanings.

    Functions used in the introverted attitude have a past, future or universal quality to them. Introverted Sensing has a past and sometimes universal sense with the focus on the evoked impression, usually of something perceived beforehand, or as Jung said, "...it would also see what was before their becoming and will be after their passing ..." (Psychological Types, p.395) Introverted iNtuiting is a process of becoming aware of what will be that hasn't yet been. Vision, foresight, and profoundly impactful symbols are often a result of this process.
    Last edited by "?"; 11-13-2008 at 04:48 PM.

  9. #39
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    There is no revenge component for myself though, if you think that's part of it. It may be for some.
    Yeah, the revenge aspect seems a bit off the mark. For me it was just finding a world that was far easier to navigate and it's a pleasure to go there.

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