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  1. #101
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    You really should see it in action in a school where students can say, "Hey you gave 9 choices for our reading projects but none are for Extraverted Intuitives" and the ISTJ teacher says, "Gosh you're right. Why don't we brainstorm a few for the EN's"

    Or the child who thinks he's an E and works with a group of E's to design their ideal classroom. After working with them as they bounce around creating their floor plan, with the chairs on springs so they can bounce their energy out and the boogie baby dance floor and the red carpet and the restaurant and the swimming pool, he goes over and looks at the I picture with its circle of couches, laptops so assignments can be emailed, and thick carpet for laying around reading books, and writes a whole paragraph on "I'm an Introvert because..." and then learns to pull away from his friends while working on assignments so he can think and starts completing his work for the first time ever...
    You do not understand one thing and that is because you are J. I really do trust you on that matter. And I personally will come to you to have me examined. I really want to because I really do believe that this will help me. Cause I lack J'ness and therefore I have absolutely nothing to be proud of. I am insane. I see nothingand I have no clue about anything. I am just a another unkown drunkard from germany.

    Did you get my point ?
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #102
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    You should study Socionics, EC. Duals, quadrants, etc. I haven't done much personal research (Though working with a dual is a blast), but they have.

    Putting all the Es and all the Is together strikes me as rather useless. Well, I think there's a great, great deal we disagree upon...
    We don't put the E's and I's together to learn. We do the exercise so the students discover for themselves whether they're right about their preference for E and I.

    I know every way to group the types. And have done primary research with many re: how people use them or differences among them. I work without instrumentation as often as I work with it. It's the theory I care about using, not the instruments.
    edcoaching

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    We don't put the E's and I's together to learn. We do the exercise so the students discover for themselves whether they're right about their preference for E and I.
    You can't tell?

  4. #104
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Ed,

    Personally I would like a test which challenged my perceptions of myself but I realise that I'm in the minority there. I've spoken to my father at length about people and their test results, he most often compiles a brief for them after a test and then schedules another session to go through it which I think is good as it gives the recipient time to think it over and properly come back on the brief. The part I like most though is when a persons perceptions are "corrected". It seems to me that people learn more by a challenge to their perceptions than by affirmation. Perhaps that's simply because the affirmation just means they are mostly correct but still I think that a test which tells you certain things instead of asking for your approval would be interesting at least and perhaps a step forwards.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #105
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    *movie announcer voice* In a world where extroverted intuitives communicate on message boards, there is no order and the subjects continually change, who will defeat these agents of chaos?

    lol
    sorry bout that
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  6. #106
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ed,

    Personally I would like a test which challenged my perceptions of myself but I realise that I'm in the minority there. I've spoken to my father at length about people and their test results, he most often compiles a brief for them after a test and then schedules another session to go through it which I think is good as it gives the recipient time to think it over and properly come back on the brief. The part I like most though is when a persons perceptions are "corrected". It seems to me that people learn more by a challenge to their perceptions than by affirmation. Perhaps that's simply because the affirmation just means they are mostly correct but still I think that a test which tells you certain things instead of asking for your approval would be interesting at least and perhaps a step forwards.
    Would you please give an example of a correction? I don't think I understand what you mean.

  7. #107
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Would you please give an example of a correction? I don't think I understand what you mean.
    If someone tested you personally and found you were actually an F then it would challenge your views of where your analytical and dispassionate side comes from. You would have to re-evaluate and in that process grow (well that would be the aim).

    Note : I'm not opening up any arguments there Ms inTj
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #108
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    In that case, I don't see how a test can do that.
    The test doesn't know your type and is asking you to tell it.

    A person who is seeing you and hearing you
    can help you discern the truth for yourself,
    such as your father does.
    Tell your dad I adore him next time you see him.
    An ENTJ who helps people with MBTT!
    How delightful!

  9. #109
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ed,

    Personally I would like a test which challenged my perceptions of myself but I realise that I'm in the minority there. I've spoken to my father at length about people and their test results, he most often compiles a brief for them after a test and then schedules another session to go through it which I think is good as it gives the recipient time to think it over and properly come back on the brief. The part I like most though is when a persons perceptions are "corrected". It seems to me that people learn more by a challenge to their perceptions than by affirmation. Perhaps that's simply because the affirmation just means they are mostly correct but still I think that a test which tells you certain things instead of asking for your approval would be interesting at least and perhaps a step forwards.
    I don't think anyone, anywhere has tried to come up with a Jungian type test that is actually diagnostic. I mean, they ran item response theory on several hundred possible items for the current form M and boiled it down to the current 93. The Majors Type Indicator used a validation group of professionals who knew their types and worked for items that were most valid with that population. I don't have a manual for the Golden but again the items came from heavy statistical analysis.

    I'm not saying it can't be done, and I know what you mean, but people's self-perceptions are challenged in interactive workshops, too.

    You know several people involved in the early popularity of the Enneagram a couple decades ago thought there should be no tests for Enneagram type. They felt people needed to experience stories and examples from people who knew their Enneagram type. There's a lot to be said for that approach...
    edcoaching

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    You know several people involved in the early popularity of the Enneagram a couple decades ago thought there should be no tests for Enneagram type. They felt people needed to experience stories and examples from people who knew their Enneagram type. There's a lot to be said for that approach...
    Notably, "It's better than testing!"

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