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  1. #361
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Typically INTP of me, I've pondered this for years, have come to a conclusion, and I won't be persuaded that it's incorrect.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Right.
    Re: Quote: Exactly. The function system's perfectly logical to me, and anyone is welcome to use the system, or not use the system, but it's pointless to attempt to convince me it's flawed or less-than-useful. Because I don't find it so. I already use it for analysis, and have found it advantageous and superior to any other system.

  3. #363
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Re: Quote: Exactly. The function system's perfectly logical to me, and anyone is welcome to use the system, or not use the system, but it's pointless to attempt to convince me it's flawed or less-than-useful. Because I don't find it so. I already use it for analysis, and have found it advantageous and superior to any other system.
    It is perfectly logical, I agree.

    It just isn't as powerful as it could be.

    I'm just trying to help here.

  4. #364
    Senior Member MissMurder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    I'm just trying to help here.
    You've seemed... combative, not helpful. But, this is the internet... I guess it can do that to people.
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  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    It is perfectly logical, I agree.

    It just isn't as powerful as it could be.

    I'm just trying to help here.
    Well, we likely disagree on how it could be made more useful. Perhaps you mean by somehow further defining use of the reserve functions, and/or further defining the preferred object of the functions? That's all too variable in my observations.

    Example: MBTT function theory doesn't specify Fi use for the INTP, thus leading many people to believe (And don't tell me it doesn't) that it's hardly used at all. Whereas even on the Cog Proc test, which I believe is flawed and was designed to test MBTI types as much as anything, myself and many others test higher in Fi than Fe. People get the idea that INTPs don't have values, and MBTT is therefore misleading.

    This system is the antithesis of misleading. The Feeling function is called "reserve," which means it doesn't typically occupy the INTP's concentration, but it remains there, always.

  6. #366
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    It's just a matter of how much background info is needed to accurately assess people. I think you can't discredit how MBTT has helped you to a certain degree. I'm sure you've internalized some of that knowledge, at the very least I think you have to have a decent amount of psycho-analysis skills or psychology other than straight typology knowledge. If you look at MBTT by definition it should stand alone by itself.

    I think your system affords a certain amount of freedom to those who are comfortable in there typing skills.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    It's just a matter of how much background info is needed to accurately assess people. I think you can't discredit how MBTT has helped you to a certain degree. I'm sure you've internalized some of that knowledge, at the very least I think you have to have a decent amount of psycho-analysis skills or psychology other than straight typology knowledge. If you look at MBTT by definition it should stand alone by itself.

    I think your system affords a certain amount of freedom to those who are comfortable in there typing skills.
    I believe I've already stated that I think Jung "had the right idea" and "got it half right." And that Myers & Co.'s creation "Made sense" in spite of the errors in transcribing functions. It's all true. To improve and clarify as I've done hardly seems like a disadvantage to me.

  8. #368
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    It depends what approach you are coming at it from. For those who are looking at making your system widely accessible the question of how self contained it is has to be answered. I think that even with all the *errors* in MBTT you have to not discount the fact that MBTT was a learning experience for you personally.

    You can learn a lot from your mistakes as a you alluded to in a number of your posts. If you give this system to someone who hasn't learned the same faults, and had the same extensive background that you did in typology, you can't discount the fact that you are privy to some unspoken or hidden knowledge that they may not necessarily be aware of.

    I haven't read all of dissonance arguments but from the gist of his posts I think that's what hes getting at. Maybe your goal is making it accessible to those who have some knowledge of MBTT or psychology in general and can therefore utilize a streamlined (not necessarily worse) typology system that allows them ease of use, and better accuracy due to flexibility.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  9. #369
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    its logical yes, i understand that, i just dont see the point considering its nothing new but i have stated that before so pardon this comment, i just wanted to follow that i understood how it generally worked
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

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  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimahn View Post
    You can learn a lot from your mistakes as a you alluded to in a number of your posts. If you give this system to someone who hasn't learned the same faults, and had the same extensive background that you did in typology, you can't discount the fact that you are privy to some unspoken or hidden knowledge that they may not necessarily be aware of.
    The mistakes, if you can call them such, which I've made, are only related to my inability to write a book-length description of the entire concept. The foundation is sound.

    I haven't read all of dissonance arguments but from the gist of his posts I think that's what hes getting at. Maybe your goal is making it accessible to those who have some knowledge of MBTT or psychology in general and can therefore utilize a streamlined (not necessarily worse) typology system that allows them ease of use, and better accuracy due to flexibility.
    You overestimate the scope of my goals. My goal is to be correct and efficient, and the burden is on the reader to make use of the system as I do. The burden to make this system accesible to the less-Intuition/Thinking inclined is on the burden of "I don't know who." I'm consistently unable to define abstract concepts in a way that makes them easily understood by everyone.

    But you underestimate my recognition of the state of affairs. I know where everyone's coming from here, which only serves to reinforce my position. The opposing arguments are coming from places where logic flows like molasses.

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