User Tag List

First 3111213141523 Last

Results 121 to 130 of 393

  1. #121
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    I'm having trouble making sense of this. First, the names are off now. Normally, the P and J signify which function is extroverted. With your system it is opposite--I don't see why keep them at all. It just makes things confusing.
    Socionics does it too, I wasn't the first. I think it makes more sense, that's why. *shrug*

    Add: Before anyone tries to tell me INTP is INTj in Socionics: No, you're wrong, it isn't. Do some research.

    P and J no longer mean anything now that you've combined Ne and Ni, Se and Si, Te and Ti, and Fe and Fi. Your INTP should be an NT and your INTJ should be a TN. With your system, only 2/4 letters matter in determining the type of the individual. With MBTI, all 4 letters matter....
    NTP defines the function order, and I defines introversion. Function order and introversion/extroversion both affect behavior and personality, as I've said. Many other things do too. 16-type doesn't define people completely, it never has and never will.

    Also, you seem to have reduced the system to 8 types instead of 16, so I am more confused now because of the E and the I. Why have E and I at all if, say, an ENTP and INTP have the same dominant and secondary functions?
    There are eight separate function orders, yes, but there are differences between INTPs and ENTPs.

    I think the most telling examples of how MBTI works are people who differ from you by 1 letter. I am an INTP, for instance, so let me look at 2 of my best friends, an ENTP and an ISTP.

    The ENTP thinks in a very similar fasion to me, but he is clearly a people person. He is not afraid to go up to someone and do something crazy or ridiculous, and this is in fact his normal way of communicating about half the time. I would love to be able to do these things, but I have dominant Ti--I am much more inclined to stay back as an observer and analyze what is going on.... but that doesn't mean that sometimes I act goofy and random, as someone with dominant Ne is very prone to do.
    This is a perfect example of the confirmation bias regarding MBTI function order, and I'm so glad you've stated it (Really).

    What you're describing is the difference between Introversion and Extroversion, not some such silly concept as "Ti."

    The ISTP is even more similar to me, but we are such good friends because the N/S difference makes for a disparity in our point of view which leads us to something we both love doing--arguing. That is our dominant Ti nature. We love to get to the very bottom of something and put our point of view into a perfect set of words. The ISTP notices details in the environment much more than I do, and I talk about philosophy and big picture ideas much more than he does, but overall we still have the same dominant mode of communication, and thus we get along much better than me and the ENTP do.
    INTP: Intuition/Thinking. ISTP: Sensing/Thinking. Similar modes of operation, and the differences you describe can be explained by the Perceiving split.

    Overall I see distinct boundaries between each of the 8 functions and I can easily see how they fit into the scheme of MBTI/Jung. It's possible that you may be mistyped and therefore see a need to correct the system. I wouldn't rule out ENTP, INTJ, or ENTJ for you. You seem to be a lot more extroverted than most INTPs.
    I am INTP.

  2. #122
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    ? If it's unimportant, wth is this thread about?

    I am not getting this at all. You haven't discredited function theory other than to say it's rubbish - which is less than persuasive. And you haven't provided any reasons to suggest why your approach makes more sense.
    yaaa pretty much
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  3. #123
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Humbug. Some, not all of you, will approve of this system more after some time has passed, if you continue to consider it. /Intuition.

  4. #124
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    11,925

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Colors View Post
    So, Socionics. Minus facial recognition.
    Um, socionics isn't always about facial recognition.

    There is a subculture of MBTI practitioners who do the exact same thing.

  5. #125
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    im just not sold on the idea. i really dont see the point thats all. the functions are plenty easy to use so why not just use them. if you simplify a system and make it easier to understand, you lose some of the original system which makes your system not nearly as useful and really just a mere shadow of the original system. now believe me, im not crazy about the functions (gasp) at all, but i find them quite easy to understand. functions, to me, are a model for something we dont understand, the human mind. but narrowing down the human mind to eight little descriptions is definitely quite a bit of narrowing. making a system like that even simpler is pointless if the system is a model for something as complex as the human mind.

    my point is i just dont see the point though im quite open to the idea if you can sell me the idea.
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  6. #126
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    im just not sold on the idea. i really dont see the point thats all. the functions are plenty easy to use so why not just use them. if you simplify a system and make it easier to understand, you lose some of the original system which makes your system not nearly as useful and really just a mere shadow of the original system. now believe me, im not crazy about the functions (gasp) at all, but i find them quite easy to understand. functions, to me, are a model for something we dont understand, the human mind. but narrowing down the human mind to eight little descriptions is definitely quite a bit of narrowing. making a system like that even simpler is pointless if the system is a model for something as complex as the human mind.
    The types aren't changed because I've explained the functions in a new way. There are still sixteen of them. This is only about functions. People are obsessed with these intellectual constructs when discussing MBTI, and these are simpler and more realistic.

    Btw, most of your argument can even more easily be applied to MBTI function theory itself.

    my point is i just dont see the point though im quite open to the idea if you can sell me the idea.
    I'm a horrible salesman, man, so I suppose there's a position open for a better one, if they happen to agree with me.

  7. #127
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    The types aren't changed because I've explained the functions in a new way. There are still sixteen of them. This is only about functions. People are obsessed with these intellectual constructs when discussing MBTI, and these are simpler and more realistic.

    Btw, most of your argument can even more easily be applied to MBTI function theory itself.


    I'm a horrible salesman, man, so I suppose there's a position open for a better one, if they happen to agree with me.
    i was talking about functions not types. the functions do not need to be simplified.

    and being a good salesman only means so much. if the product can sell itself then whats the point of a good salesman .
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  8. #128
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mlittrell View Post
    i was talking about functions not types. the functions do not need to be simplified.
    Define "need." MBTI functions are inaccurate. They are basically redefining concepts based on analysis of people. One small example which leads to immeasurable misunderstanding being:

    The definitions of judging and perceiving are inconsistent.

    Even if they were accurate, they would still be a problem, because many don't understand them. The simpler something is, the easier it is to be understood, as a rule.

  9. #129
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    You have to determine I/E independently. And if you're NFJ your Primary function is Feeling, which commonly works in tandem with Intuition.


    No, I'm not. I'm telling people that their function order isn't what they thought it was.

    Typically INTP of me, I've pondered this for years, have come to a conclusion, and I won't be persuaded that it's incorrect. You do have the right to think it's wrong, of course.
    Dude, people type themselves WITH the function order.

    I'm definitely not an INFJ in your system; I'm an INFP. I guess it's all internally consistent, but it just seems like a pointless switch -- it doesn't even explain anything any better.

    I like the idea of not having separate functions for introversion/extroversion; I think introversion/extroversion of a function should be thought of as a spectrum, not an either/or. The rest of it seems to suggest that you just don't understand the whole of function theory...

  10. #130
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    type
    Posts
    9,100

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Dude, people type themselves WITH the function order.
    DUDE, I know. And they'll be better off if they type themselves with this function order. No one save for maybe locke has brought up anything I haven't considered, and rejected or accepted.

    I'm definitely not an INFJ in your system; I'm an INFP. I guess it's all internally consistent, but it just seems like a pointless switch -- it doesn't even explain anything any better.
    You're showing just how INFJ you are in my system. Note: I do not think it is a bad thing to be INFJ. Your Feeling judgments are occupying more of your concentration than your Intuition is.

    I like the idea of not having separate functions for introversion/extroversion; I think introversion/extroversion of a function should be thought of as a spectrum, not an either/or.
    That's one way to put it, but I just consider the application. For example, Thinking is a tool which can be used on a variety of things.

    The rest of it seems to suggest that you just don't understand the whole of function theory...
    NO U. But I really do, as well as almost anyone. Well enough to find flaws.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO