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  1. #91
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I agree. I've said myself that the "eight function" system can describe people in a way, but the problems are

    1. Most people apply a rigid order based only on theory,
    2. It's not the only way to describe thought processes,
    3. Descriptions and interpretations of function use are primarily based on observation of individuals who supposedly possess a certain familiarity with whatever function,
    4. People are unaware of the above and more.
    Well this is the problem with all psychological typing is it not? The only reference we have for certain traits are within ourselves and hence this kinda queers up our normal route of testing via another example. This is then compounded by no two examples being precisely the same.

    A couple of thing which finally made the whole function order make sense (including why they only mention four of the eight processes)
    J/P only applies to extraversion
    Your tertiary and inferior functions apply primarily to your subconscious.

    Armed with that I've finally seen the whole pattern.

    Note to Wildcat, I still don't see the numbers though
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #92
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Your system is too different from MBTI -- people's types won't cross over.

    Say someone is an NFJ and they're trying to figure out their first letter -- say they look at which one they use more, intuition or feeling, and deduce their introversion/extroversion from there. That doesn't work in your system, so you're really asking a bunch of people to switch types (all the introverts).


    (Why don't you just switch your type to ENTP instead of asking us all to switch?)

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Your system is too different from MBTI -- people's types won't cross over.

    Say someone is an NFJ and they're trying to figure out their first letter -- say they look at which one they use more, intuition or feeling, and deduce their introversion/extroversion from there. That doesn't work in your system, so...
    You have to determine I/E independently. And if you're NFJ your Primary function is Feeling, which commonly works in tandem with Intuition.

    you're really asking a bunch of people to switch types (all the introverts).
    No, I'm not. I'm telling people that their function order isn't what they thought it was.

    Typically INTP of me, I've pondered this for years, have come to a conclusion, and I won't be persuaded that it's incorrect. You do have the right to think it's wrong, of course.

  4. #94
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    He's right you know. 1/3 of the time is spent sucking up information and the rest is devoted to taking a long walk around it. Hence why if you challenge an INTJs position you most often get the result of the challenge a couple of days or perhaps a week or so later once they've had chance to walk around it in their head and poke it with sharpened sticks
    I disagree. I think it only looks that way.

    I believe the reason it takes so long for an INTJ to explain to you how they came up with a conclusion is because the information the conclusion was based on was collected by Ni in a rather "subconscious" way, and collected over years of time. To bring all that to the conscious arena in an explainable way does take a lot of thinking. It's like trying to make sense of something that was woven together like a spider's web. Can one really tell which strands were laid first? And then second, etc. On top of that, we have the notorious bad memory working against us. If people would stop asking us to explain everything, we'd be a lot happier.

    I was very close with an ISFJ for two years. We worked shoulder to shoulder several days a week for that time. She would have these "hunches" that she could not explain. They were based on Si. At first, I would question her, "How can you be so sure? How do you know?" After a while, I learned that her Si was always right. (I don't remember a time it was wrong.) She was coming to a conclusion based on information she had gleaned from a photograph or a book years and years before! It was unbelievable! Once I saw the "proof" a few times, I realized that even though she couldn't produce evidence on the spot, it was wise to trust her, and her hunches.

    Si and Ni are very similar except in the type of information it collects.

  5. #95
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Typically INTP of me, I've pondered this for years, have come to a conclusion, and I won't be persuaded that it's incorrect. You do have the right to think it's wrong, of course.
    That's not typically INTP. Most of us are open to persuasion. But it is typical to throw your ideas out there and "expect them to thrive by themselves".
    Last edited by Salomé; 11-03-2008 at 08:58 AM. Reason: through?

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I disagree. I think it only looks that way....
    This is the fundamental problem. People define dominant Judging as Ni or Si because someone has misinterpreted the whole situation.

    The nature of dominant Judging in an Introvert is such that a relatively large amount of assignment of value is taking place internally, with a relatively small amount of input. The opposite for dominant Perceivers.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    That's not typically INTP. Most of us are open to persuasion. But it is typical to throw your ideas out there and "expect them to thrive by themselves".
    Allow me to clarify: I've been there, having had hundreds of conversations about this before, and have been persuaded before. Not now, I've finally made up my mind.

  7. #97
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    This is the fundamental problem. People define dominant Judging as Ni or Si because someone has misinterpreted the whole situation.

    The nature of dominant Judging in an Introvert is such that a relatively large amount of assignment of value is taking place internally, with a relatively small amount of input. The opposite for dominant Perceivers.
    ...
    So why are you saying that INTJs do more Te than they do Ni?

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    So why are you saying that INTJs do more Te than they do Ni?
    You don't need to use those terms any more, because the concepts are silly. There's no such thing as Ni. You can't perceive something without input. This is technically true, there's no way around it. You can Judge based on a very small amount of input. The input is Intuition, and the internal "Where did that come from?" business is Thinking based on low input.

  9. #99
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    You don't need to use those terms any more, because the concepts are silly. There's no such thing as Ni. You can't perceive something without input. This is technically true, there's no way around it. You can Judge based on a very small amount of input. The input is Intuition, and the internal "where did that come from?" business is Thinking based on low input.
    The input comes from a sensing function.
    Intuition can't work in a vacuum.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    The input comes from a sensing function.
    Intuition can't work in a vacuum.
    This is unimportant. You have to call Intuition something. Intuition is like distorted Sensing. Filtered.

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