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  1. #31
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Persistence over goals works for me. All 4 also have "chart the course" working styles...
    Actually 2 (INJs) have "Chart the Course" and 2 (ENJs) have "In Charge" interaction styles.

    I do like Berens take on the NJ being similar to the SP in that when Ni is combined with Te/Fe and Ti/Fi are combined with Se, you get similar results from the types. Some differences are NJs want to understand something completely and feel a need for competency before moving ahead or taking action whereas SPs will be more apt to quickly grasp the essence of something and take action, gaining competence as they go. Granted this will be more commonly used with NTJs and STPs, but I see Ni giving both NFJs the ability to be more conceptual than NFP types.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Actually 2 (INJs) have "Chart the Course" and 2 (ENJs) have "In Charge" interaction styles.

    I do like Berens take on the NJ being similar to the SP in that when Ni is combined with Te/Fe and Ti/Fi are combined with Se, you get similar results from the types. Some differences are NJs want to understand something completely and feel a need for competency before moving ahead or taking action whereas SPs will be more apt to quickly grasp the essence of something and take action, gaining competence as they go. Granted this will be more commonly used with NTJs and STPs, but I see Ni giving both NFJs the ability to be more conceptual than NFP types.
    I agree but I also think NTJs reach a point where they learn competency also comes from taking action. Often i have found that Ni will allow me to grasp the essence and move forward like you have described. Theory ,after all ,can best work itself out or be proven in the real world.

  3. #33
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Structure and predictability...ugh. That's SJ. Instead NJ's want to be able to control their destinies. Work in an environment that is malleable enough that they can bring their vision to fruition.

    In a seminar on type and innovation, one of my ENFJ colleagues said, "That tenacity to see it through and even become fanatical...I call it the Rottweiler effect."

    The facilitator quipped, "We prefer to term it 'doggedness.'"
    tee-hee
    I have been noted as having "bulldog tenacity".

  4. #34
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloakofsnow View Post
    ...
    According to Carl Jung, all introverted functions have a "timeless" quality to them because they go under the surface of the everchanging conditions of the external world (e.g. changing societies, culture, fashions, manners, values...) in an attempt to find the eternal and universal natures of things.
    ...
    Yes!
    That is exactly how I feel about the information that my Ni takes in and remembers!

  5. #35
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Something that I've noticed as a contrast between INPs and INJs is that INJs are better at succinctly expressing (usually in writing) a coherent argument or vision. This is not to say that INPs LACK coherent arguments or visions--they just seem to have more trouble focusing on only what is important.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #36
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    I agree but I also think NTJs reach a point where they learn competency also comes from taking action. Often i have found that Ni will allow me to grasp the essence and move forward like you have described. Theory ,after all ,can best work itself out or be proven in the real world.
    Which is what distinguishes NTJs from NTPs. Over the years my discussions on the INTPc and ENTP.ORG forums has shown that NTPs are okay with learning for it's own sake, whereas like STPs NTJs must be able to apply what they learn to real life circumstances. I think the difference between STP and NTJ is the immediate need for impact vs a need for closure. Said a different way per Keirsey, STPs strive on tactical intellect whereas NTJs honor strategic intellect.

  7. #37
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Something that I've noticed as a contrast between INPs and INJs is that INJs are better at succinctly expressing (usually in writing) a coherent argument or vision. This is not to say that INPs LACK coherent arguments or visions--they just seem to have more trouble focusing on only what is important.
    This is what one site says about INTPs and INTJs when it comes to writing styles:
    INTP's are generally uninterested in writing until something captures their curiosity. Once they become involved, INTP's can get so engrossed that they lose touch with the rest of the world. Schools and workplaces are often not hospitable to these iconoclasts; if they aren't careful, INTP's may become quietly cynical. With their powerful ability to focus on a task, most INTP's do their best writing when working alone. If forced to perform in a group tasks they prefer to do alone, such as writing , INTP's may limit their contributions or withdraw entirely.

    Below are some of the advantages and challenges INTP's face when writing:

    Strengths

    At their best, incisive, original writers who cut to the chase.
    Can find flaws in others’ arguments and correct concisely in writing.
    Excellent at investigative research.
    Present information in an original format.
    Excellent self-starters when engaged. When not challenged, may resort to an overly academic style.

    Challenges

    May be too dry for the audience or ignore others’ feelings.
    May not find a "hook" for the audience.
    May be ineffective with canned formats.
    Non-starters when not engaged.
    INTJ's are pragmatic theoreticians who like to develop plans, designs, or theories that work in the real world—in fact they are often more interested in designing a writing project than in writing it. They often incorporate design elements, such as flow charts, diagrams, and schematic drawings in writing. As a result, their writing is the most clearly and consistently organized of all MBTI types. For INTJ's, the idea is the most important part of the message—they don’t need to "entertain" the audience.

    Below are some of the advantages and challenges INTJ's face when writing:

    Strengths

    Plan extensively.
    Like to complete writing projects quickly—never miss deadlines.
    Original thinkers with neat, orderly minds.
    Often have good ideas which they present in a clear, organized manner.

    Challenges

    May be too locked into the plan.
    Concern with speed may lead to skimpy research.
    Need more spontaneity.
    Need more audience focus—soften harsh statements or qualify assertions.

  8. #38
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Concern with speed may lead to skimpy research.
    Need more audience focus—soften harsh statements or qualify assertions.
    And this is why my teachers hate me.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #39
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    For good measure, I have to throw in my own type:
    Their Introversion give ISTPs an appearance of being cool on-lookers who are seemingly detached. However, as writers they work with an intense involvement with projects and prefer to work alone. Their Sensing preference leads them to enjoy practical activities and solving intricate problems—in fact, they may love the rush of adrenaline when thoroughly engrossed. The Thinking preference lets them apply clear logic to situations, which, taken with their ability to absorb seeming endless details, makes them excellent safety writers. As Perceivers, ISTPs are comfortable with incorporating new information as it arises.

    Below are some of the advantages and challenges ISTP's face when writing:

    Strengths

    Often write quickly once they have facts at hand.

    Thorough researchers; will exhaustively study any problem.

    Handle large amount of facts easily and can explore implications of their findings.

    With their practical natures, ensure that the facts are always right.

    Excellent at biting humor or satire. Would make terrific comedy writers or op-ed contributors.

    Challenges

    Tend to ramble and may have many more facts than needed but include them anyway.

    Wait until the last minute to begin then may have to postpone deadlines.

    Become so mired in facts, they may ignore the big picture.

    Focus on details so much that they are likely to ignore the reader.

    Have to be careful, especially in e-mail, where irony is often seen by the reader as sarcasm.

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