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  1. #1
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Default The Dualistic Nature of ENTJs and ESTJs

    As stated previously Iíve decided to elaborate on one of the differences between ENTJs and ESTJs:

    So oft confused are the MBTI types of ENTJ and ESTJ that one would think them completely similar. They do, as we have been told, carry the primary functions of Extroverted Thinking and therefore should be identical in their mind frame. Now I am to venture a radical guess, that the personality of a person is not simply affected by the Primary Function but by the totality of the functions, or even more radical, various components throughout a personís life that MBTI does not cover. But that is an outskirt of the topic and duly noted to so I will keep on the topic of Ni and Si for now, each type's respective Secondary Function.

    The attitude towards these functions can be seen throughout various pop cultural clusters. The dark-minded NTJ pitted against the idealistic Sensor is a familiar image of American cinema. Superman vs. Lex Luthor, the Skywalkers vs. Emperor Palpatine. Any of these can be taken as a reference not only to the domineering influence of Te but the anti-visionary stance against Ni, rather predictable as America is in itself a Si and Se based culture. Ni, being an element deliberated in pursuing a visionary change throughout society, acts in direct antagonism against a dominant Si public. While Ni seeks to change the status quo in lew of an inner vision, Si functions as a cultural stagnant, seeking to preserve the civilization as it currently is. On the world stage, these differences take up central importance.

    Who do we imagine most to exemplify the voice of change than the visionary revolutionary leader pitted against the bureaucrats of the establishment? Surely not simply Ne, which though traditionally seen as Siís opposite only pursues the passive choice of bringing about ideas or Se, which dominates centrally in a culture also dominated by Si. These two may be opposite on a theoretical basis but in the execution of reality rarely meet at violent odds. Niís contrast, however, brings about bloody conflict, change, and revolution that shatters the security of Si. The visionary vs. the establishment is not simply a cultural tale but a visible trait that places itself squarely in front of Siís goal, that is to say, the preservation of contemporary culture. These contrasts are often seen realistically via the ENTJ and ESTJ personalities. Both perform goals in a similar manner using Te as a means to chart the course, but the goal attended differs sharply due to the presence of the two opposing functions. Te paired with Ni seeks too change the environment using an organized plan while Te backed up with Si attempts to maintain the environment in the same manner. These visionary faculties of Ni are not segregated to ENTJs. The same can be observed in the ENFJ Martin Luther King Jr., the INFJ Mahatma Ghandi, and the INTJ Thomas Jefferson.

    I propose a manner of grouping types by their Primary and Secondary Perceiving functions, a topic I will speak more on in the future. This organizational style seeks to understand how various groups approach social political changes throughout history.

    Ni: ENFJ, ENTJ, INFJ, INTJ
    Ne: ENFP, ENTP, INFP, INTP
    Se: ESFP, ESTP, ISFP, ISTP
    Si: ESFJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ISTJ
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  2. #2
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Default

    Sounds intresting, I like the idea.

    Although I find you described it a bit to radical or black & white, because as you stated earlier a personality is made of 4 functions that means everyone uses N or S to some extent and I myself am very hesitant to speak about N or S dominants.

    One other thing I find misleading is the interpretation of N and S in manners of N being visionary and S being preserving. That interpretation is something the use of these functions can lead to but the functions on its own are just two systems that describe on what one concentrates in reality. The reorganisation or preservation of order would fall into a more Te/N(S) combined approach to me.

    If you take for example the Jedi Order from StarWars, what is presented in a sort of idealistic way, you can absolutely have a person that is concerned to explore the relations within the force and the outer world and to find intuitively new approaches to understand it. But who has at the same time the ability to understand the logic, why he needs to follow some rules in the progress, if he does not want to be corrupted by the dark side.

    I find your thread intresting and I will watch it's progression though
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #3
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Default

    Knocked them speechless, I suppose.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

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