User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 27

  1. #11
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    7
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    That's the standard angle, Xander. Have you noticed they're in the Self-Help section, and not the Psychology section? I have.

    They want to sell to laypeople, not professionals, and they'll get farther with complimentary individualization than derogation.
    What they'll be selling to professionals is Step III. That has a clinical side. The regular instrument doesn't.
    edcoaching

  2. #12
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    979

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Was That Really Me? by Naomi Quenk is about eruptions of the inferior.

    Lots of teh coaching books like Differentiated Coaching and Introduction to Type and Coaching have information on common flaws

    Working Together by Isachsen and Behrens points out all kinds of flaws

    Sundial by Brydans is all about type and disease

    Three Keys to Self-Understanding by Wyman weds the Enneagram with type to show how people can learn to take control of their lives,

    SoulTypes by Hirsh and Kise is mainly on spirituality but has stuff on how each type spirals out of control.

    Jung's Psychological Types probably has the most negative info since he derived it via working with people who weren't mentally healthy.
    Thanks for the reading list.

    First book - tons of great information and examples.
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  3. #13
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    548 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    3,441

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay so I've noted whilst reading through a couple of MBTI books that they seem to almost be useless after a while. The reason for this, in my opinion, is that they concentrate quite heavily on the positive side of a personality type.

    I'm not sure about other's but I tend to find analysis of a types flaws, the various traps they may get caught in and the general areas for improvement, much more helpful both in typing people and helping them in general and yet there seems to be less information on this than on why it's "okay" to be your type, something I've never considered a particular problem despite being the only P in a family of Js.

    Do you have the same problem?
    Does anyone have any good sources?
    This is precisely what I noticed when I first was introduced to the Keirsey test, and then tried to compare both KTS and MBTI types to the FIRO-based APS temperament system I was familiar with. FIRO itself actually leans a bit towards the negative. (though for you; "People Gatherer-Matcher-Optimist" is positive; some of the other names are quite negative!) The APS and LaHaye temperament systems are quite balanced in strengths and weaknesses.

    Then, everyone's trying to compare MBTI with Enneagram, which is the opposite negative extreme.
    It was the Lifexplore page that gave me a good glimpse of the negative side, and that personalitypage site is good with that too,
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  4. #14
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    6,727

    Default

    I had this same kind of feeling when reading Please Understand Me. He makes everybody sound so intelligent and healthy. I was thinking I should write a book called "Personalities of Stupid People"
    Jeffster Illustrates the Artisan Temperament <---- click here

    "I like the sigs with quotes in them from other forum members." -- Oberon

    The SP Spazz Youtube Channel

  5. #15
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwigie View Post
    Does anyone have any good sources?
    Try these descriptions and tell me if it sounds good to you:

    INTP Personal Growth

    http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/intp.htm(skip the "fluff" at the end, you'll know where it is.)

    INTP - Jung Type Descriptions

    INTP - On A Team
    Thanks. I'll go browse that lot when I get chance. It's somehow more interesting to me to watch out for the flaws than to pat myself on the back for my strengths.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwigie View Post
    So I'm not the only one who thought that the kersey temperament was BS and seemed very fluffy ?
    I went on the personal growth part and in my opinion that's where it all starts to make sense.
    I got a feeling that you probably already read all these descriptions though.
    I've never read into kersey myself but yeah the self help bits are usually more revealing to me than all the strength analysis in the world. I think I see flaws easier than I do strengths.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    You mean to say that you don't get enough working examples of the dark sides of different personality types around here?
    That's psychosis not psychometry
    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It's an inevitable consequence of what Christopher Lasch termed "The Culture of Narcissism"; where essentially self-esteem and "feeling good" about yourself are among the most important concepts promoted.

    Of course the problem is that one never really gets a full honest picture of themselves, and ironically it leads to more anxiety and depression. It means accepting the person you want to be, rather than accepting the person you really are.
    Precisely. Ignorance is only bliss if your brain doesn't keep trying to become aware.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    That's the standard angle, Xander. Have you noticed they're in the Self-Help section, and not the Psychology section? I have.

    They want to sell to laypeople, not professionals, and they'll get farther with complimentary individualization than derogation.
    It does appear that most of the writing is more inclined towards being happy where you are and recognising that "you're cool too" than actually improving your lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Was That Really Me? by Naomi Quenk is about eruptions of the inferior.

    Lots of teh coaching books like Differentiated Coaching and Introduction to Type and Coaching have information on common flaws

    Working Together by Isachsen and Behrens points out all kinds of flaws

    Sundial by Brydans is all about type and disease

    Three Keys to Self-Understanding by Wyman weds the Enneagram with type to show how people can learn to take control of their lives,

    SoulTypes by Hirsh and Kise is mainly on spirituality but has stuff on how each type spirals out of control.

    Jung's Psychological Types probably has the most negative info since he derived it via working with people who weren't mentally healthy.

    There's also the little fact that type is about normal differences among normal people, and every single type can be arrogant/stubborn/bossy/insecure/etc. depending on nurture/roles/difficulties. Because it's used so much with teams a lot of the resources were developed in keeping with the idea that giving people ammunition to tear each other down is generally not helpful...
    I'm definitely hunting down that Wyman book. I've often wondered about a holistic theory including both the enneagram and the MBTI. Do they include positive and negative feedback too?

    As for providing ammo, I think that people need to quit the nanny approach. I very much doubt that nuclear physics books are riddled with sidebars telling the reader that it's mean to nuke people for example. At some point the writer has to release responsibility for interpretation and use to the reader.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    This is precisely what I noticed when I first was introduced to the Keirsey test, and then tried to compare both KTS and MBTI types to the FIRO-based APS temperament system I was familiar with. FIRO itself actually leans a bit towards the negative. (though for you; "People Gatherer-Matcher-Optimist" is positive; some of the other names are quite negative!) The APS and LaHaye temperament systems are quite balanced in strengths and weaknesses.

    Then, everyone's trying to compare MBTI with Enneagram, which is the opposite negative extreme.
    It was the Lifexplore page that gave me a good glimpse of the negative side, and that personalitypage site is good with that too,
    That's what I found when looking into the enneagram. It's complete with warnings and possible areas for growth. The MBTI kinda brushes over all of that most of the time in the aim of making people feel better for being who they are.

    Not so sure about the FIRO-B though. Surely if your need for inclusion is low, for example, then you really won't care that you will be labelled as someone who doesn't really care about being included unless your deluding yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I had this same kind of feeling when reading Please Understand Me. He makes everybody sound so intelligent and healthy. I was thinking I should write a book called "Personalities of Stupid People"
    That would be a book I'd read.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #16
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    the various traps
    IT'S A TRAP!!!

    -Admiral Ackbar

    in terms of the question(s)/statment(s), ya there really isn't enough out there on the negative sides of personalities. my only problem with the negative side is that there shouldn't be a positive side either (at least not much). i consider keirseys versions of the types to be perfect because he equals the goods and the bads out, but still keeps the +/-'s to a minimum. he more points out how each type thinks, processes, and deals with the world, and that is what MBTI SHOULD do. if you point out too many positives and negatives then you start to get into stereotypes/generalities that might be true for one person and completely false to another. there are so many factors behaviorally that you cant pinpoint them on type; the two main factors that come to mind are biotemperament and nurture (enneagram).
    "Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress. "

    "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

    Mahatma Gandhi

    Enneagram: 9w1

  7. #17
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,351

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay so I've noted whilst reading through a couple of MBTI books that they seem to almost be useless after a while. The reason for this, in my opinion, is that they concentrate quite heavily on the positive side of a personality type.

    I'm not sure about other's but I tend to find analysis of a types flaws, the various traps they may get caught in and the general areas for improvement, much more helpful both in typing people and helping them in general and yet there seems to be less information on this than on why it's "okay" to be your type, something I've never considered a particular problem despite being the only P in a family of Js.

    Do you have the same problem?
    Does anyone have any good sources?
    Naomi L. Quenk Beside Ourselves.

    This book describes how the shadow behaves... and why... in excellent detail.
    I can't go without it.
    It's an excellent resource.

    I use it mostly for the suggestions she gives for returning to "equilibrium" as she calls it, after a shadow episode - which she refers to as being "beside ourselves".

    Also in Do What You Are, by Barron and Tieger they list every type "Possible Blind Spots" in a very diplomatic non-condemning way.

  8. #18
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,351

    Default

    This website discusses the shadow also but not in much detail.
    teamtechnology

  9. #19
    Senior Member Fiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    217

    Default

    I'm curious. When you find your blind spots, how will you use that information?

  10. #20
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    5,351

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiver View Post
    I'm curious. When you find your blind spots, how will you use that information?
    I suppose it is only useful to those people who are interested in improving themselves.
    On the other hand, because I am so critical of myself, it helped me to identify which type I was - by the faults instead of the virtues.

    In Do What You Are, each paragraph in which a "possible blind spot" is described, ends with a one sentence suggestion on how you can work on improving that part of your tendency so that it is not such a detriment.

    I used to be really hard on myself - read: my husband used to complain at me a lot - about my tendency to get involved in a project and let all my other responsibilities fall by the wayside. Once I discovered this was a tendency of INTJs it did a couple of things for me:


    • I learned to accept myself the way I was and not be so hard on myself for something that was part of the whole package that was "me".
    • I learned that since that is a tendency, I need to make extra effort to avoid getting overly involved in a project to the detriment of my duties. (Conceivably, I could have done this apart from understanding it is a blind spot for me, but somehow knowing it's a blind spot makes me not want to do it as much.)


    So that's a couple of things.

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] Sensory stuff you find oddly enjoyable
    By Wolf in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: 03-29-2010, 12:41 AM
  2. [NT] NT's and fluffy clouds :o)
    By labyrinthine in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 01-31-2008, 12:18 PM
  3. Replies: 29
    Last Post: 07-16-2007, 01:47 PM
  4. Fluffies Anonymous
    By disregard in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 05-15-2007, 03:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO