E vs I and Hormones

[nolla]

I watched this documentary about testosterone and how it affects behavior. Nothing new really, but it got me thinking that many of the traits related to high testosterone are also related to MBTIs extroverted types.

Basically it goes like this. When you are in the womb, your body starts pumping up the testosterone at a certain point. If the level is high, you end up being a boy, if the level is low, you are girl. After this the hormone plays a big role at puberty.

So I'm thinking, could the womb testosterone level be the crucial factor in making you extrovert? Or, are these two things linked in other ways? Are there studies?

If it was so, it wouldn't mean that every introvert is a low testosterone guy, since after you are born your mind already is set to a certain behavior but your bodys testosterone level is affected by your surroundings.

(I'm not too sure how this would work out for a girl, though)

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by nolla

I watched this documentary about testosterone and how it affects behavior. Nothing new really, but it got me thinking that many of the traits related to high testosterone are also related to MBTIs extroverted types.

Basically it goes like this. When you are in the womb, your body starts pumping up the testosterone at a certain point. If the level is high, you end up being a boy, if the level is low, you are girl.

A little sloppy of an assessment.

It's true that the androgens virilize you as male. Those XY males who are androgen-insensitive will proceed along an externally female path physically even if they have crudely developed testes inside.

There are many things that can derail this process.

So I'm thinking, could the womb testosterone level be the crucial factor in making you extrovert? Or, are these two things linked in other ways? Are there studies?

Even just logically thinking through it, it doesn't seem like that would be the case.

What testosterone does is make you more aggressive and/or direct in your approach with the world. I don't think that's the same as "extroversion," although you would be extroverting your desires actively.

If it was so, it wouldn't mean that every introvert is a low testosterone guy, since after you are born your mind already is set to a certain behavior but your body's testosterone level is affected by your surroundings.

This concept sounds like it has a lot of holes in it.

What of extroverted women who might be more extroverted than extroverted men? They certainly do not have MORE testosterone than the male(s). That in itself is enough to derail this way of thinking. I'd recommend more reading on the actual impact of testosterone in human behavior, in general.

[nolla]

Yes, it is hazy, I admit. I'm just interested if there is anyone out here who has tried to link these two. I don't understand anything about hormones (except the common knowledge). But, MBTI is a way to box behaviors and the hormones are what make some behavior patterns to come forward, right? So, there should be some connection..?

Originally Posted by Jennifer

What of extroverted women who might be more extroverted than extroverted men? They certainly do not have MORE testosterone than the male(s). That in itself is enough to derail this way of thinking. I'd recommend more reading on the actual impact of testosterone in human behavior, in general.

Yeah, this is a tough one. I don't know. Could the relative level of testosterone for a girl be an answer?

[Haphazard]

Originally Posted by nolla

Yeah, this is a tough one. I don't know. Could the relative level of testosterone for a girl be an answer?

No. You would be able to tell because the most extroverted girls would be much hairier, and this is certainly not the case.

[Nocap]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

A little sloppy of an assessment.

It's true that the androgens virilize you as male. Those XY males who are androgen-insensitive will proceed along an externally female path physically even if they have crudely developed testes inside.

There are many things that can derail this process.

Interesting...
Hmmm...
Yes...

To my knowledge, which is admittedly limited, that doesn't happen very often.
I mean you're right, but it seems odd to use something so obscure in a rebuttal.
Maybe a personal factor has heightened your awareness of the phenomenon?

Even just logically thinking through it, it doesn't seem like that would be the case.

Yeah... that would mean all women are Is right? That's... not even close.

This concept sounds like it has a lot of holes in it.

Just like all of psychology. Who's idea was it to make physical correlations with any kind of archetypes anyway? This isn't the first time I've heard of this kind of stuff.

[nolla]

Originally Posted by Haphazard

No. You would be able to tell because the most extroverted girls would be much hairier, and this is certainly not the case.

Well, yeah, I guess. But, this doesn't explain why the high testosterone "alpha males" are definitely extroverted.

[Jack Flak]

I don't think your theory holds water, personally, but there's no argument that hormones control personality. For example, healthy females with a preference for Thinking are more ruled by emotion than healthy "T" males. Estrogen.

[nolla]

Originally Posted by Nocapszy

Who's idea was it to make physical correlations with any kind of archetypes anyway?

MINE!

Originally Posted by Nocapszy

This isn't the first time I've heard of this kind of stuff.

You haven't seen it here. I searched. There wasn't any topic named anything close to this one.

[Haphazard]

Originally Posted by nolla

Well, yeah, I guess. But, this doesn't explain why the high testosterone "alpha males" are definitely extroverted.

"Alpha male"-dom has to do with aggressiveness, not introversion versus extroversion. Not all extroverts are aggressive, and certainly not all introverts are passive -- however, introverts tend not to be aggressive unless things fall onto 'their turf,' and a passive extrovert will still be more aware and interacting with the world around them (though not forcing it).

Extroversion would be a plus if trying to manage a pack, but it's certainly not the only factor in becoming an 'alpha.' Remember, there are a lot of extroverts out there, but only a few alphas.

[nolla]

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

I don't think your theory holds water, personally, but there's no argument that hormones control personality.

I don't have a theory. I just want to know how they are related, if they are related.

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

For example, healthy females with a preference for Thinking are more ruled by emotion than healthy "T" males. Estrogen.

This is exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for. You are saying that the ultimate thinker needs to be a man, basically. Quite a claim. Interesting.