Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

[PinkPiranha]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Assigning emotions is a great debate strategy.

Like eyerolling? Agreed!

Under what authority? Is there some central governing body that legislates the definitions of words?

I'm in tight with the OED. SHHH!!

Definitions are not created to make people feel good, they're arrived at as a natural part of communication. Their purpose it to facilitate the transmission of an idea, nothing more.

Lateralus, you just defined "definition".

I love it.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

Lateralus, you just defined "definition".

I love it.

Actually, I explained its origin and purpose, which isn't the same as a defining.

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by Littlelostnf

When INTP's find someone to share their lives with who truly gets them. It's amazing how much they want their partner to truly understand them...and that my friend is not easy for everyone to do. It's not explicit demands they are implicit.

Okay, yeah you are quite right. We do place a very high expectation on our mate to "understand" us. I've had to learn this lesson very hard. I don't expect to have to explain things out, but no one is a mindreader.

Still, you like that? That "floats your boat"?

What else is an extreme demand by the INTP?

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

Explain.

Detached observer, in ideology. I stand four-square to that assertion. Try as you might, if you ever have the misfortune of falling for ENFJ, just try to stay on the fringe. I defy you. I defy your 'science', your 'detachment', your 'objectivity'. Once the catalyst hits your surface, kiss your ideology good-bye. Everything will burn away and take new shape. Go ahead. Try and stop it. I can't stop it either.

Sure, but that fire doesn't last years, does it? Do you (or does he) lose identity? INTPs are quite independent.

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

I'm turbulent. I can't help it. I really can't. I don't know what's wrong with me. I've been this way from the word 'go'. I don't go out for turbulence, but - I don't know. It's a point of deep sadness and mortification for me. Maybe you have to feel some measure of safety to be calm? To stop bucking? I'm trying to learn. But even on my good days, when I'm all right, I'm still feeling the lava moving around under the skin. My sisters and friends say I'm a wild animal and always will be. Is that bad? Because I can't turn it off.

That does sound a bit exhausting. I don't mind emotion directed towards me in the context of a relationship, but I don't want to talk someone down off the ledge all the time because of the external world.

Originally Posted by Littlelostnf

Strong ones don't run..they embrace a fire that doesn't burn...Lava creates new lands on which to plant all sorts of amazing things.

Sounds good, how often is that true?

Originally Posted by Tallulah

Honestly, I think I'd rather have a soulmate than a mindmate. I enjoy meeting people whose brain works like mine, but it doesn't naturally inspire passion in me.

Mindmates is a bit more than that. I can get along intellectually with more people than the rare mindmate. The passion is there in those cases. Sometimes not willingly.

Originally Posted by Sunshine8

Challenging, energetic without being too intense, space for each person to be themselves, a call to stand as equals - not some prince or princess, a feeling of growth (even if is bought about through conflict at times), a sense of respect for the other person's abilities, a sense of depth - long term prospects for fulfillment on both sides.

I like that.

[PinkPiranha]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Actually, I explained its origin and purpose, which isn't the same as a defining.

Hey, Edahn! It's getting all existential in here and you're not even involved. How does that make you feel?

[PinkPiranha]

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Okay, yeah you are quite right. We do place a very high expectation on our mate to "understand" us. I've had to learn this lesson very hard. I don't expect to have to explain things out, but no one is a mindreader.

How great would it be to just think something and have them know it? I have something like that with my twin and I take it for granted.

What else is an extreme demand by the INTP?

By them? I thought the discussion was about what was a demand ON them? I was hoping you were going to say something along those lines.

Sure, but that fire doesn't last years, does it?

Yes, it does. It's the nature of the Fe-beast.

Do you (or does he) lose identity? INTPs are quite independent.

Here's a matter I was just discussing with Sis last night. The recurring fear by the INTP that they'll be consumed somehow or lose identity. That's not what happens, because quite frankly, I hold onto my identity with an iron grip too, and resent any dilution. Do INTPs pick partners, then, based on the idea that this person hits the "mind" marks but will never "own" the INTP on any level?

That does sound a bit exhausting. I don't mind emotion directed towards me in the context of a relationship, but I don't want to talk someone down off the ledge all the time because of the external world.

That's not me, either. And who would want to be around that?

Mindmates is a bit more than that. I can get along intellectually with more people than the rare mindmate. The passion is there in those cases. Sometimes not willingly.

So this doesn't happen often?

[proteanmix]

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

That's not me, either. And who would want to be around that?

That's kinda the impression I got, that you are very strongly expressive and feel everything intensely and I can't help but wonder how that translates into reality. When I've encountered people like that IRL they tend to overwhelm. I'm just wondering how other people view that part of you.

I am a little concerned that people are going to get the impression that all ENFJs are like that. I know I can be excitable and I'm not ashamed of that, but I wouldn't say that I'm always in an internally heightened state or walk around with my skin turned inside out. How do you deal with being choppy inside for so much of the time?

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

How great would it be to just think something and have them know it? I have something like that with my twin and I take it for granted.

Never known that.

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

By them? I thought the discussion was about what was a demand ON them? I was hoping you were going to say something along those lines.

The Nin quote was about "choose{ing} a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me". Making enormous demands on others is a demand on the INTP. We'd rather be off in our heads.

Fe is quite a demand. I find it delicious, but I'd need time to recharge. It's still extraversion.

Ne is a better way to get more interaction from the INTP. Brainstorm!

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

Yes, it does. It's the nature of the Fe-beast.

*lights match*

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

Here's a matter I was just discussing with Sis last night. The recurring fear by the INTP that they'll be consumed somehow or lose identity. That's not what happens, because quite frankly, I hold onto my identity with an iron grip too, and resent any dilution. Do INTPs pick partners, then, based on the idea that this person hits the "mind" marks but will never "own" the INTP on any level?

No, but that fear does exist. I think immature INTPs would probably look for someone that only hits on the mind. They'll realize their mistake eventually.

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

That's not me, either. And who would want to be around that?

Okay good. But is it okay if you were to get wound up about something, and the guy left the room, came back and doused you with a fire extinguisher? Not that it would solve anything, but because it would be hilariously funny.

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

So this doesn't happen often?

Often? Probably about as often as your fusion. Though you increase your chances by changing environments.

[PinkPiranha]

Originally Posted by proteanmix

That's kinda the impression I got, that you are very strongly expressive and feel everything intensely and I can't help but wonder how that translates into reality. When I've encountered people like that IRL they tend to overwhelm. I'm just wondering how other people view that part of you.

I'm intense. Not loud, or mean, or humorless. I've never had someone step back from me fearfully, if that's what you mean? I won't lie and say that I'm not wound tight. I am. But I'm also deeply loyal, funny, and kind. I off-set my intensity with humor and friendliness. I can control my emotions coming *out* - I just can't control them coming *in* which is incredibly frustrating.

I am a little concerned that people are going to get the impression that all ENFJs are like that. I know I can be excitable and I'm not ashamed of that, but I wouldn't say that I'm always in an internally heightened state or walk around with my skin turned inside out.

I'm bringing down the property values? *jest*

I don't represent ENFJs as a whole. Just myself. I relate to Wolfmaiden's intensity a lot, though she posts as an INFJ. I relate to Disregard's intensity and she posts as INFP. Neither of these people are mean or out of control.

How do you deal with being choppy inside for so much of the time?

I spend a lot of time alone. Or I crack jokes with my dad or sister. They naturally lighten my mood. Or I just sit quietly and process through my thoughts/impressions until they achieve a balance.

I think I wouldn't be so choppy if there wasn't always some nasty storm whipping the water up. I'd like calm. What little I've had of it is Nirvana.

Originally Posted by MacGuffin

Never known that.

The Twin Hive Mind.

The Nin quote was about "choose{ing} a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me". Making enormous demands on others is a demand on the INTP. We'd rather be off in our heads.

Noteworthy.

Fe is quite a demand. I find it delicious, but I'd need time to recharge. It's still extraversion.

I have to recharge too. Hence, the alone time.

Ne is a better way to get more interaction from the INTP. Brainstorm!

My Ni is laying a trap... right.. now....

No, but that fear does exist. I think immature INTPs would probably look for someone that only hits on the mind. They'll realize their mistake eventually.

Thanks for the clarification.

Okay good. But is it okay if you were to get wound up about something, and the guy left the room, came back and doused you with a fire extinguisher? Not that it would solve anything, but because it would be hilariously funny.

You'd do anything to... never mind.

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

My Ni is laying a trap... right.. now....

Uh huh.

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

You'd do anything to... never mind.

You can't allude to something then not... wait! That's the trap!

*escapes*

[PinkPiranha]

*snaps fingers*

So close.