Hitler Analysis

[Evan]

i think Hitler was an INFJ. Ni vision almost seems like a duh (so xNxJ for sure). definitely an Fe user, he was all about applying his vision in the world of VALUES. his goal was to convince people what to believe/apply his value judgments. not an Fi user.

[Little Linguist]

Originally Posted by Aerithria

Just a random thought. For the people who say that he's too inhumane to be an NF, consider it from a different perspective. Looking back on it now, yeah, of course he's the most inhumane bastard ever to cross the planet. However, he saw a country that was in serious need of some form of leadership and believed that he knew a way to fix things. xNTJs always get the credit when some asshole steps up and says "I'm going to smite you all", but he stepped up and said "I'm going to save us all". I'm not saying that he wasn't evil, but he did have the welfare of his country in mind when he took the position.

Actually, after all that rambling, I'm starting to see how INFJ could fit. An unhealthy desire to fix everything coupled with a twisted set of principles telling him that he's doing right. Hm. I don't know. Most likely an INF, at any rate.

Originally Posted by dissonance

i think Hitler was an INFJ. Ni vision almost seems like a duh (so xNxJ for sure). definitely an Fe user, he was all about applying his vision in the world of VALUES. his goal was to convince people what to believe/apply his value judgments. not an Fi user.

Thank you VERY MUCH - in short words, that is EXACTLY what I wanted to say. Do appreciate it.

[Perseus]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Erm do we really need to type Hitler?
On the other forum mostly everyone came to an agreement on what type he was and then all the people with his same type got a whole bunch of crap from then on out. It was horrible. People would even use him as examples of common behavior for that type...ugh how stupid...Hitler didn't display common behavior of ANY type, even the type he was because it's a rare thing for someone to become that psycho.

It is important to prevent it happening again.

Hitler was a pretty ordinary sort of mass murderer and certainly a major ESFJ variant aided by Bulls (ESTJ) riding on the backs of Lions (ESTP).

Exactly what proportions of each of the E S F J on a scale of 12 on the Paragon Test, I have not researched enough. I suspect high scores on all four. His mistress, Braun, that would be a more interesting challenge and I do not know the answer. I suspect the very dangerous combination of a malignant ENFP Weasel. I will need to do so research on this. I am using my N function as an INTP.

Perseus
The Sore Dragon

[Carebear]

Originally Posted by Perseus

It is important to prevent it happening again.

Hm... Hitler was neither the first nor the last genocidal maniac with large support from his people. It has happened again and it will happen again I fear.

[PinkPiranha]

He's an ENFJ and that's not braggable. AT ALL. Who else could be so lunatic and murderous and still attract so much support and loyalty?

Just the other night, we were watching a documentary about that horrible man, and I said, "Don't you think he's XXXX?" (I forget what I asserted....) Sis turned to me, gave me an incredulous look, said, "Are you serious? Pink, look at him. Don't you see yourself just screaming off the guy?"

I just sat there saying nothing. She said, "You could be evil. So easily. All ENFJs could."

I have to concur. But I also want to state that Hitler is one of those people that disgusts me on every level of my humanity. If I had known him, I would have taken him out myself.

[Little Linguist]

Originally Posted by PinkPiranha

He's an ENFJ and that's not braggable. AT ALL. Who else could be so lunatic and murderous and still attract so much support and loyalty?

Just the other night, we were watching a documentary about that horrible man, and I said, "Don't you think he's XXXX?" (I forget what I asserted....) Sis turned to me, gave me an incredulous look, said, "Are you serious? Pink, look at him. Don't you see yourself just screaming off the guy?"

I just sat there saying nothing. She said, "You could be evil. So easily. All ENFJs could."

I have to concur. But I also want to state that Hitler is one of those people that disgusts me on every level of my humanity. If I had known him, I would have taken him out myself.

Hmmmm...well, I could see why you would argue this. However, I am pretty sure this guy was an Ni dominant, with Fe really following a close second. He's not an Fe dominant, I do not think....

I also think he would be more prone on using introverted thinking as an auxiliary than extraverted sensing.

However, I could be mistaken.

What do you think?

[PinkPiranha]

I think typing a lunatic is going to be a blind study at best!

[Perseus]

I don't go for ENFJ, sticking to ESFJ. Roughly, those who are stupid and industrious are a menace and should be removed. -Who said that?

However, I am prepared to say that the maniac may not be a the maximum for self-interest sensing. Might be E 10, S 8, F 10, J 12.

Don't believe too much of the rhetoric. The trains did not run on time, the clocks did not even keep proper time.

[Perseus]

Hitler was a malignant on the dark side. Care means hatred. Negative emotions.

Originally Posted by sleepless

I searched here and there on the net and was quite surprised that many people seem to think of Hitler as an MBTI idealist - INFJ, ENFJ and even INFP (!) are some of the various suggestions I encountered. (Among other things I read through an old thread on INTJforum and some people even said he was a sensor.) From how I understand MBTI and the eight functions this is nothing but ridiculous, but then, it seems like people understand the functions differently, or they don't understand them at all but are happy with just the letters.

I thought about this some time ago before I had checked with anyone or anything, and my conclusion was - and still is - that he was INTJ, and I'm quite sure of it. I don't really get it when even some of the "experts" think he was ENFJ (so I read... somewhere).

Okay, here's his functions, one by one:

Introverted Intuition
Anyone who doesn't agree with this? Well actually, this far people does seem to be agreed, more or less. Hitler was driven by an inner vision, Deutschland Über Alles, Lebensraum, World Domination, all that crap. When he was younger, hanging out with his NSDAP buddies, he could be silent for long periods of time, and then suddenly burst into speech, and when he talked he could do so for hours.

Extraverted Thinking
Secondary function, according to me then, is Te - organization, efficiency, decisiveness, toughness. Te is impersonal and sees what needs to be done (whatever that is) and how to get there, no matter if other people will protest or, ultimately, get hurt by it. It doesn't, like Fe, stop and say: "Is everyone okay with this?" People are secondary to the project at hand.

Introverted Feeling
This third function, sadly misdirected, undoubtedly helped to fuel the little moustasche-man's feeling of humiliation and thirst for revenge: "The jews didn't let me in to their art's school, so I hate them", "The war was unfair and so was the Treaty of Versailles, just wait till next time", and so on. And yes, the Versailles-thing was very unfair, but in a more balanced person, and with a more developed Fi, the hurt feelings would have had a chance to transform into acceptance and forgiveness, instead of being a source of sheer hatred.

Extraverted Sensing
The least interesting, and same for all INJs anyway, but if I'm not mistaken Hitler was yet another of all these INJ people who cared about what he ate (his doctor suggested that he eat less meat, or something like that). Also, he was in fact an painter in his youth, also potentially INJ-ish (expressing one's Ni through one's Se, as discussed in my last thread).


So, this is how I see it, and I just can't understand why people think of him as NFJ! Let's look at some descriptions of NFJs and of Extraverted Feeling:

INFJ Characteristics - Dolphin Cove


"Oh my, I am so sensitive to conflict, I better start a World War...?"

Extraverted Feeling


OK, now, this might not be _the_ definition, but it says pretty much the same as others I've seen. What more is there to say?? Hitler was so NOT Extraverted Feeling! He was so NOT caring, nice, friendly, considerate and he was definitely not sensitive to conflict! Everyone knows Te is the forceful function; brutal, aggressive, insensitive people are often unbalanced Te-users, I think. There is a risk for unbalanced Fe-users, and especially NFJs, to become manipulative, that is true, and maybe why many think this ought to be the Führer's type. But Hitler wasn't *manipulative* like an NFJ, he wasn't a "people-person"; he was rhetorical, his speeches were passionate, fierce and aggressive, and lots of people were moved by it.
YouTube - Adolf Hitler - Speech (1932)

In the INTJ-forum-thread I looked over lots of people seemed to think Hitler was F, and also, thinking of these anti-feeling threads which have been going on now ever since (and before) I joined the forum, there seems to be a common understanding that F = emotion, and that to act on emotion is per definition dangerous, chaotic and best avoided. My understanding of the MBTI is that F/T is a difference between personal/impersonal reasoning. After that, the difference between Fi/Fe and Ti/Te makes it hard to generalize any further. But to act on emotion is not really Fe, which concerns itself with interpersonal connection and harmony, it is Fi, and to some extent Te. Fi-Te are on the same axis, remember? (my latest thread again) In the Hitler speech above, what function is he using? Clearly he's using both. Fi alone doesn't make an aggressive speech, Te alone doesn't make a speech at all. "Oh German people, we have been humiliated - now we shall have revenge!"

And I want to point that out - Fi alone doesn't make an aggressive or somehow "dangerous" person, though that is almost the feeling you get when reading those anti-feeling threads...

Having read this far I hope everyone agrees with me that Hitler was not an INFJ! (and yes, I admit this is something of an ego-thread)

Now I want a hundred comments

[Little Linguist]

Originally Posted by Perseus

Hitler was a malignant on the dark side. Care means hatred. Negative emotions.

Gahhhhh! You totally oversimplify the whole issue!!!!!! Oh man....where do I start?

Btw, I am not allowed to see the speech because we aren't allowed to watch these things on the Internet.

Dominant Ni no question.

Auxiliary Te - no way. Sorry. A rational man would not have behaved in that way. Ask Bluey - he'll tell you. He's the master of advocating NTs in positions of power.

Auxiliary Fe does not mean lovey dovey. Whyyyyy in the name of good heavens does everyone think Fe = Flower Power, hippie, let's all love each other? BTW, an Fe can be just as effective, brutal, etc. - perhaps even MORE so BECAUSE of this inner value system. Because of this driving power to ameliorate what he saw as a degenerate influence in his country. When our values are PEACEFUL, we are peaceful. When someone conflicts with our values, we go APESHIP! K??? And not just throwing horrific temper tantrums over stupid shit (although he did that too) but also and especially when someone conflicts with our value system. The claws come out and we go into NO-REMORSE mode. HOW IN GOD'S NAME IS THAT T?!?!?! He did not argue with coming out with rational facts - he appealed to people's hearts.

Oh dude, don't know where you guys are coming from with the T bit.

Do you guys want to insinuate that Bin Laden is in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM A T???? He might be an asshole, but his motivations are TOTALLY FFFFF!!!


Stalin - now that asshole might have been a T. He was more effective in his killing too - good for him . And he managed to stay on the right side and the right time and die before things got too hairy. Okay, I'm being utterly sarcastic, but you know what I mean.

But these weirdos who all go on rampages due to ideological reasons - these bastids are all F. And bastids who plan stuff, have an eye on the future, have a grand vision, have a savior complex, and go ape shit if anyone does not agree with them - yeah, those are NFs gone wild - and I don't mean the porn video.

Now of course, like I've said a BILLION times, most of us are COOL BEANS. When our motives are good and we have developed in a healthy manner, sweet. If not - all hell breaks loose.

AND for all those who think I'm harping on right-wingers: What do you think the crazy assholes like Baader-Meinhoff were??? SURELY NOT T, folks!!! These crazy left-wing farts were definitely F all the way to fart jail. And I'm sure Marx was NF. All these crazy radical farts with a vision, left wing or right wing - are bound to be Fs.

And not just dictators - I'm sure all the *marvelous* decisions in American history - like Manifest Destiny, "Make the World Free for Democracy" Weirdo Wilson, "New Deal" Roosevelt, Carter - the Sitting Duck with Grand Plans but couldn't let a fart go properly, Lincoln - who started a bloody Civil War over his bloody vision. Yeah All Fs you can be sure.