INFJ 4s

nightwatcher · 06-25-2008, 11:26 PM

The conventional type theory formula for INFJs is INFJ=Ni primary + Fe auxiliary. But many INFJs are Enneagram 4’s and there is little Fe about 4, which is a mix of introverted feeling and introverted intuition. The INFJ 4 (or INFJ with heavy 4 wing) is a different kind of INFJ, the kind more likely to be described as “strange” and “mysterious” because they're dom functions are Ni and Fi rather than Ni and Fe like other INFJs. Using myself as an example, I’m either an INFJ or close to it because I score high in Fi on the functions test, which is about equal to my Te function, and which corresponds to my heavy 4 wing. My Fe score is the second to lowest. So if I’m an INFJ, it’s because of high Fi, not high Fe. This is very different from an INFJ who fits the convetional Ni + Fe formula, who I imagine would seem more like a “normal” person.

I’d like to know how INFJ 4s here score on their Fi/Fe functions.

Evan · 06-26-2008, 12:16 AM

Ni expressed through Fe can look a lot like Fi. but there is no such thing as an INFJ with Ni and Fi -- that would be INTJ...

enneagram type 4 makes sense for INFJs because Ni provides an individualistic stream of data that is acted out through Fe. Fe itself conforms to the feeling sentiments of the current environment, but since Ni dominates, the viewpoints expressed are often unique ways of viewing those feeling standards...

it does not take Fi to be individualistic.

cascadeco · 06-26-2008, 01:12 AM

I'm an INFJ type 4w5, and on functions tests my Fi has always been quite high. It does depend on the day I take it, but on a few occasions it was the highest function, followed by Ni. In fact the cognitive function test that is thrown around on this site the most has always typed me as INFP, with INFJ only once.

I am always striving for growth and self-actualization and all of that. And for a type 4, the self-actualization/individualist thing is our prime motivator. To try to achieve that self awareness, one does have to have a good grasp of Fi (and other cog. functions assist with that too).

But even if Fi is high for me now, it hasn't always been so. I think my Fi has only really become strong in the past 4 yrs or so -- I don't think I was terribly emotionally aware prior to that. I stifled all of it, and didn't readily recognize my own needs or desires. I'm consciously paying attention to my emotional state these days, and have more of a balance between the Fi/Fe (well, I think I do!), and because I'm focusing on the Fi stuff more, I'm positive that's why I'm testing the way I am.

I also think there's a distinction between Fi things that I recognize in myself, and personally think are strong, vs. dominant Fi in action. I think there's probably a large difference between the two -- the Fi I pay attention to and value within me, vs. Fi in someone who really has it as a backbone of their perceptions and approach to life.

jackandthebeast · 02-08-2009, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan

Ni expressed through Fe can look a lot like Fi. but there is no such thing as an INFJ with Ni and Fi -- that would be INTJ...

Could you explain why Ni+Fi is INTJ? I haven't taken the socionics test yet, but I've tested close to the border on INFJ and INFP, and Ni and Fi are definitely my most used functions. How could Fe manifest itself as Fi? Wouldn't that make it Fi? Also if Ni and Fi were your first two functions, what would be the order for the other six? Thanks.

jackandthebeast · 02-08-2009, 05:33 AM

Wait, is it the socionics test that tells you the order of your cognitive processes? If not, what test does?

Evan · 02-08-2009, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackandthebeast

Could you explain why Ni+Fi is INTJ? I haven't taken the socionics test yet, but I've tested close to the border on INFJ and INFP, and Ni and Fi are definitely my most used functions. How could Fe manifest itself as Fi? Wouldn't that make it Fi? Also if Ni and Fi were your first two functions, what would be the order for the other six? Thanks.

An INTJ with Ni 1st and Fi 2nd would still act things out through Te. (Just like me, but with Ni 1st and Ti 2nd acting things out through Fe.)

Also, you can't trust processes tests to tell you the strength of your processes. You have to do your own research/introspection.

Mercy · 02-08-2009, 06:23 AM

This shit makes functions sound too limited, and you can be an INFJ with Fi and Fe tied. Not too accepted though.

jackandthebeast · 02-08-2009, 08:55 PM

I'm pretty sure my thought is internalized as well though. The only one I can't figure out is my Inferior Function. How do I determine if it's Si or Se? The descriptions online aren't a lot to go on since I don't use either that much.

jackandthebeast · 02-10-2009, 10:10 PM

Actually, I've been looking at the cognitive processes a lot these past several days, and I don't fit any of the patterns, per se. I developed both Ni and Fi extensively (at a young age), and Fe and Ne somewhat later and to a lesser degree. I also just realized that I am not very developed logically or sensually, although I do have the preferences of Ti and Si over Te and Se. I know I am not developed in these areas because I don't think linearly (I kind of jump from thought to thought- and this limits my capacity to express myself in both my speech and in my writing) and I also have poor short term memory when it comes to what actually took place in certain scenarios (while having strong long term memories of the significances and emotional values of certain events). My question is, since I began developing the processes for two separate patterns, and I guess am overdeveloped with regard to intuition and feeling, to what extent would I have the capacity to develop Ti and Si?
I know this is totally a matter of speculation, but for those who are well-read about the processes, I'm eager to hear your opinion.

06-25-2008, 11:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
nightwatcher Member Join Date: May 2008 Type: INXJ Location: The Kefahuchi Tract Posts: 84	INFJ 4s The conventional type theory formula for INFJs is INFJ=Ni primary + Fe auxiliary. But many INFJs are Enneagram 4’s and there is little Fe about 4, which is a mix of introverted feeling and introverted intuition. The INFJ 4 (or INFJ with heavy 4 wing) is a different kind of INFJ, the kind more likely to be described as “strange” and “mysterious” because they're dom functions are Ni and Fi rather than Ni and Fe like other INFJs. Using myself as an example, I’m either an INFJ or close to it because I score high in Fi on the functions test, which is about equal to my Te function, and which corresponds to my heavy 4 wing. My Fe score is the second to lowest. So if I’m an INFJ, it’s because of high Fi, not high Fe. This is very different from an INFJ who fits the convetional Ni + Fe formula, who I imagine would seem more like a “normal” person. I’d like to know how INFJ 4s here score on their Fi/Fe functions. __________________ "Space was big, and the boys from Earth were awed despite themselves by the things they found there: but worse, their science was in a mess. Every race they met on their way through the Core had a star drive based on a different theory. All those theories worked, even when they ruled out one another’s basic assumptions. You could travel between the stars, it began to seem, by assuming anything.” —M. John Harrison, “Light”

06-26-2008, 12:16 AM	#2 (permalink)
Evan . Join Date: Nov 2007 Type: INTP Location: Berkeley Posts: 3,062	Ni expressed through Fe can look a lot like Fi. but there is no such thing as an INFJ with Ni and Fi -- that would be INTJ... enneagram type 4 makes sense for INFJs because Ni provides an individualistic stream of data that is acted out through Fe. Fe itself conforms to the feeling sentiments of the current environment, but since Ni dominates, the viewpoints expressed are often unique ways of viewing those feeling standards... it does not take Fi to be individualistic. __________________ INTP 9 sx/sp (9>5>2)

06-26-2008, 01:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
cascadeco Shimmering natural wonder Join Date: Oct 2007 Type: infj Posts: 2,007	I'm an INFJ type 4w5, and on functions tests my Fi has always been quite high. It does depend on the day I take it, but on a few occasions it was the highest function, followed by Ni. In fact the cognitive function test that is thrown around on this site the most has always typed me as INFP, with INFJ only once. I am always striving for growth and self-actualization and all of that. And for a type 4, the self-actualization/individualist thing is our prime motivator. To try to achieve that self awareness, one does have to have a good grasp of Fi (and other cog. functions assist with that too). But even if Fi is high for me now, it hasn't always been so. I think my Fi has only really become strong in the past 4 yrs or so -- I don't think I was terribly emotionally aware prior to that. I stifled all of it, and didn't readily recognize my own needs or desires. I'm consciously paying attention to my emotional state these days, and have more of a balance between the Fi/Fe (well, I think I do!), and because I'm focusing on the Fi stuff more, I'm positive that's why I'm testing the way I am. I also think there's a distinction between Fi things that I recognize in myself, and personally think are strong, vs. dominant Fi in action. I think there's probably a large difference between the two -- the Fi I pay attention to and value within me, vs. Fi in someone who really has it as a backbone of their perceptions and approach to life. __________________ "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce INFJ 1w9 sp/sx/so http://www.flickr.com/photos/lynn_ph...ing_the_world/

02-08-2009, 06:23 AM	#7 (permalink)
Mercy the gateway of doors Join Date: Oct 2008 Type: ILI Location: Generally right here Posts: 1,552	This shit makes functions sound too limited, and you can be an INFJ with Fi and Fe tied. Not too accepted though. __________________ Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties. Ni-IEI, INTJ, Sx 5w4

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02-08-2009, 05:33 AM	#5 (permalink)
jackandthebeast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Type: INFx Posts: 33	Wait, is it the socionics test that tells you the order of your cognitive processes? If not, what test does?

02-08-2009, 08:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
jackandthebeast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Type: INFx Posts: 33	I'm pretty sure my thought is internalized as well though. The only one I can't figure out is my Inferior Function. How do I determine if it's Si or Se? The descriptions online aren't a lot to go on since I don't use either that much.

02-10-2009, 10:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
jackandthebeast Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Type: INFx Posts: 33	Actually, I've been looking at the cognitive processes a lot these past several days, and I don't fit any of the patterns, per se. I developed both Ni and Fi extensively (at a young age), and Fe and Ne somewhat later and to a lesser degree. I also just realized that I am not very developed logically or sensually, although I do have the preferences of Ti and Si over Te and Se. I know I am not developed in these areas because I don't think linearly (I kind of jump from thought to thought- and this limits my capacity to express myself in both my speech and in my writing) and I also have poor short term memory when it comes to what actually took place in certain scenarios (while having strong long term memories of the significances and emotional values of certain events). My question is, since I began developing the processes for two separate patterns, and I guess am overdeveloped with regard to intuition and feeling, to what extent would I have the capacity to develop Ti and Si? I know this is totally a matter of speculation, but for those who are well-read about the processes, I'm eager to hear your opinion.

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