The big ol' bowl of Enneagram

[JustDave]

Magic,

So we meet at last. Whatever recommended consulting you. Below are the scores i received from the long eclectic energies test. Although it indicates that i'm an 8w7 i think i'm more of a 7, but not sure of my wing. Please help.

Wing 8w7 - 12
Wing 8w9 - 11.7
Wing 7w8 - 11.4
Wing 9w8 - 10.9
Wing 3w2 - 9.1
Wing 2w3 - 8.1
Wing 9w1 - 7.7
Wing 7w6 - 7.6
Wing 3w4 - 7.2
Wing 2w1 - 5.7

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by JustDave

Magic,

So we meet at last. Whatever recommended consulting you. Below are the scores i received from the long eclectic energies test. Although it indicates that i'm an 8w7 i think i'm more of a 7, but not sure of my wing. Please help.

Wing 8w7 - 12
Wing 8w9 - 11.7
Wing 7w8 - 11.4
Wing 9w8 - 10.9
Wing 3w2 - 9.1
Wing 2w3 - 8.1
Wing 9w1 - 7.7
Wing 7w6 - 7.6
Wing 3w4 - 7.2
Wing 2w1 - 5.7

Well, I need some feedback, Dave. What are the prime causes of confusion about your type?
Of the possibilities, you could be 7/6, 7/8, 8/7, or 8/9.
What makes it hard for you to pick?

[JustDave]

Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan

Well, I need some feedback, Dave. What are the prime causes of confusion about your type?
Of the possibilities, you could be 7/6, 7/8, 8/7, or 8/9.
What makes it hard for you to pick?

Good question.

I should preface this by telling you that my understanding of all things related to personality types is weak, at best.

Although i'm assertive and hate being controlled like an 8, i live for visceral experiences and adventure like a 7. And, to confuse things i definitely relate to the type 9's desire for harmony.

Also, (i don't quite understand stress points) when angry my inclenation would be to attack the source of my anger. The idea of turning inward and hurting myself is unthinkable.

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by JustDave

Good question.

I should preface this by telling you that my understanding of all things related to personality types is weak, at best.

Okay.

Originally Posted by JustDave

Although i'm assertive and hate being controlled like an 8, i live for visceral experiences and adventure like a 7. And, to confuse things i definitely relate to the type 9's desire for harmony.

Many Eights live for visceral experiences and adventure, that does not necessarily define Seven alone. Like-wise, Sevens don't want to be controlled. The more important question is *do you want to control?*.

And here's a question:
Given the choice, If you could run away and avoid trouble at the expense of your esteem, or stand and put-up an unnecessary fight for the sake of your pride, what would you do?

Originally Posted by JustDave

Also, (i don't quite understand stress points) when angry my inclenation would be to attack the source of my anger. The idea of turning inward and hurting myself is unthinkable.

That's alright, you don't have to for the time.

EDIT: A few pages back, there is a post contrasting Sevens, Eights, and Nines.
you might want to read that.

[JustDave]

Both tough questions.

No, i definitely don't want to control, i'd much rather be left alone.

To answer your second question, it depends on the risk. If it were a life and death situation where a loved one or i could get killed if i stayed then i would go. Otherwise i would definitely stay and fight.

[Magic Poriferan]

Two new pages added to the main list.

[Magic Poriferan]

It's certainly been a while since I've posted anything here, but I have spent some fair amount of time scrutinizing the finer details of how the Enneagram really works, and this seems like the most logical place to post my findings.

----------------

I began this train of thought on the notion that the Nine "distinct" types of the Enneagram were obviously combinations of smaller variables, and that in sense, each type was not as truly unique as most of the Enneagram sources like to say.

The fact is, anything in the universe can be cut down to dichotomies. Anything. However, converting an odd set of catagories into an even set of catagories is a real head-ache, so I didn't go so far as to boil the Enneagram down into a binary system. I got close, though.

I concluded that each of the nine Enneagram types can be defined in terms of two variables which each have three values (so two trichotomies).

One trichotomy seems to regard a type's preference of initiative. The level and manner of action a type will take while navigating life scenarios.

The three values of this trichotomy can be defined as:

Active/Aggressive: Types that like to take initiative, act pre-emptively and/or unilaterally, and advance on things of interest. Types with this preference are generally incorrigible and have a disdain for positions that feel like anything less than leadership. Will not be likely to commit to obligations unless they are in control or seeking control.
The types that have this preference are: Threes, Sevens, and Eights.

Reactive/Supportive: Types that prefer to act only in reaction to or cooperation with other actions. These are types that are prone to watch and weight, and manage situations as they come. While types with this preference can be exceptional as assistants and subordinates, they also tend to have an unmovable stubborn streak regarding certain values, which can push them into leadership positions.
The types that have this preference are: Ones, Twos, and Sixes.

Passive/Evasive: These types generally neither take initiative nor pose the support or opposition. Types with this preference tend to let life set the pace for them, somehwhat like the supportive types, but these types are much more likely to avoid or accept circumstances than to manage or challenge them. Possibly the most independant of power structures, but not necessarily rebellious to them.
The types that have this preference are: Fours, Fives. and Nines.

The other trichotomy seems to correlate with emotional patterns, especially regarding the way one manages emotions.

The three values of this trichotomy can be defined as:

Temperamental: This refers to the tendency to be emotionally sensitive and volatiel. A temperamental type is one that let's emotions flare in and ubridled manner, and puts little effort into emotional control. Temperamental types have a particular propensity toward expressing dark or negative emotions more than positive ones.
The types that have this preference are: Fours, Sixes, and Eights.

Projective: This refers to the tendency to be emotionally self-managing in a way that aims to project certain emotions, hence the chosen name. Types with this preference will selectively concentrate on certain feelings, not surprisingly with a bias toward positive feelings. These types tend to be wary of dwelling on or dealing with negative emotions, and are especially afraid to reveal their own.
The types that have this preference are: Twos, Sevens, and Nines.

Detached: This refers to the tendency of suppressing or detaching oneself from emotional impulses of most any sort. These types seek more self-control and clarity of thought be subduing their own emotions. They may reveal anger and amusement more often than others, but are especially afraid of vulnerable or needful emotions. Tend to be awkward in dealing with the feelings of others.
The types that have this preference are: Ones, Threes, and Fives.

Keep in mind that all of the terms used for these values are subject to change. They are simple the best things I could think of at the time.

So, for the full breakdown:
Active/Aggressive + Temperamental = Eight
Active/Aggressive + Projective = Seven
Active/Aggressive + Detached = Three
Reactive/Supportive + Temperamental = Six
Reactive/Supportive + Projective = Two
Reactive/Supportive + Detached = One
Passive/Evasive + Temperamental = Four
Passive/Evasive + Projective = Nine
Passive/Evasive + Detached = Five

Some interesting conclusions can be drawn from this. For one thing, it shows that these variables operate in a way very similar to the Instinctual Variant systems. These can also be broken down into three value "stacks". So while someone may be primarily Temperamental, they may also be nearly just as Projective, and only slightly Detached. Like the instinct systme, there may be a profound difference between people who have different values in second and third place, even if they have the same first place value. This would certainly explain a lot of things. While Fours are supposed to be Passive/Evasive, it is clear that some have more of a bent toward being Active/Aggressive while others have more of a bent toward being Reactive/Supportive.

This also shows that the Instincual variants are not an odd fringe addition to the Enneagram, but actually a perfect match with the rest of the system. The two trichotomies I detailed effectively define how someone feels and what someone does about it. The instincts define what a person cares about.

If we treated the first two trichotomies as stack, added on the instincts, and then counted every possible stacking, then you could say there are 216 possible types. That's a rather handy level of specification. I prefer the nuance.

The other important thing this breakdown reveals is that there is no rational basis for the placement of numbers in the Enneagram. The One could just have logicall been called the Seven. There is no reason for their order.
Confirming this severely casts doubt on the wing system. Since there is no logical pattern to the order of the types, there is no reason to assume that a type could only have wing of the adjacent number.

As another interesting little note, every type has four types which share a value with it, and four other types that share no values with it. A type can obviously only share both values with itself.


Pardon all of the typos that may be present. Have a nice day.

[htb]

Very interesting, Poriferan, especially since I find the Enneagram a more appropriate and accurate instrument than MBTI.

[Night]

Magic -

I've taken a smattering of Enneagram tests and always seem to conclude as a 5w8.

I was speaking with some other folks who stated that, as 8 wasn't a potential analogue to 5, I should consider focusing on my tertiary 6 instead.

Can you provide some insight?

[Evan]

they have some good profiles on the enneagraminstitute site:

5
8

also check out:
1

also, 5 and 8 are connected -- 8 is the healthy arrow from 5.