The big ol' bowl of Enneagram

[Magic Poriferan]

New page added to the main list.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan

Thank you very kindly, Xander.
And thanks for all the rep!

Helpful INTPs deserve football

[Garivande]

Just took the test at enneagraminstiture.com (never heard of the enneagram until today) but this question really made me pause for a while:

- I have generally been an
a) outgoing, sociable person.
b) earnest, self-disciplined person.

uh...?

Also I don't understand this "wing" stuff. Had 5 and 9 as (equal) strongest types on the test with the annoying question above, on another test I had strongest 4, with 5 and 7 next (equal). Total confusion... And I don't have the patience right now to take a "complete" and time consuming test...

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by Garivande

Just took the test at enneagraminstiture.com (never heard of the enneagram until today) but this question really made me pause for a while:

- I have generally been an
a) outgoing, sociable person.
b) earnest, self-disciplined person.

uh...?

Also I don't understand this "wing" stuff. Had 5 and 9 as (equal) strongest types on the test with the annoying question above, on another test I had strongest 4, with 5 and 7 next (equal). Total confusion... And I don't have the patience right now to take a "complete" and time consuming test...

The questions are sometimes confusing, and admittedly not always well written. You have to remember that the test is not always making you choose between opposites. Its asking you to state which of two potentially mutual traits you have more of.
It's a base three system using to answer questions. I understand how it could seem strange.

If you don't have patience, then that may be responsible for your unstable results.

["?"]

Actually I misidentify with E5 more than any other type:

Misidentifying Fives and Nines

A detailed comparison and contrast between Fives and Nines is warranted because so many Nines mistakenly think that they are Fives; typically, the misidentification almost never happens the other way around. Particularly if they are well educated and intelligent, average male Nines tend to think that they are Fives. (As noted in the discussion of Twos, average female Nines tend to think that they are Twos.)

Of all the personality types, Nines have the most difficulty identifying which type they are because their sense of self is undefined. Average Nines have little sense of who they are apart from those they have identified with; hence, they are usually at a loss to know where to begin to find their type. (As we have seen, either they think they are Fives or Twos or they see a little of themselves in all the types and make no further effort at identifying themselves. If they have no guidance, Nines in this predicament usually shrug their shoulders and give up on the Enneagram and more important, on acquiring self-knowledge.)

Even relatively healthy Nines still have a somewhat diffused sense of self because it is based on their capacity to be receptive to others—and to be unself-conscious. Moreover, average Nines have problems identifying their type because doing so arouses anxiety, something completely anathema to them. Whatever disturbs their peace of mind is ignored or met with a blind eye. They avoid introspection in favor of entertaining comforting notions about themselves, whatever they may be. Maintaining an undefined understanding of themselves, and thus, maintaining their emotional comfort, is more important to average Nines than acquiring deeper insights.

None of this is true of Fives, and the two types are opposites in many ways. Nines are gentle, easygoing, patient, receptive, and accommodating, whereas Fives are intense, strong-minded, argumentative, contentious, and highly resistant to the influence of others. Nines like people and trust them; perhaps at times they are too trusting. By contrast, average Fives are suspicious of people and are anything but trusting, perhaps at times too cynical and resistant. Both types are among the three withdrawn types of the Enneagram, and (as we have seen with Fours and Nines), there are genuine similarities between them, although only superficial ones (PT, 433-36).

Despite their similarities, the main point of confusion for Nines arises around the notion of "thinking." Nines think they are Fives because they think they have profound ideas: therefore, they must be Fives.

Part of the problem stems from the fact that individuals of both types can be highly intelligent, although as a group Fives are probably the most intelligent of the nine personality types. (When Nines are highly intelligent, they can be as brilliant as Fives, although their intellectual prowess is compartmentalized. They are brilliant at work but unfocused and inattentive everywhere else, whereas Fives are focused and attentive everywhere all the time.) Although intelligence can be manifested in different ways, being intelligent does not make Nines intellectuals, just as thinking does not make them thinkers. As we have seen, the pattern as a whole (and the motivations) must be taken into consideration, not one or two traits in isolation. Since all the types think in one way or another, thinking alone, with no further distinction, is not a sufficient basis for a personality diagnosis.

The fundamental difference between the thinking of Nines and that of Fives is that Nines are impressionistic, involved with generalities, imaginative ruminations, and fanciful situations. Nines typically do not concern themselves with details, nor are they usually good at following up once they have acted. By contrast, the thinking of Fives is highly focused, penetrating, and almost microscopic in the narrowness of its frame of reference. Fives love details, losing themselves in research, scholarship, and complex intellectual pursuits. They think in depth, concentrating so much that they block out other perceptions (eventually to their detriment). By contrast, even brilliant Nines tend to have problems concentrating; they also tend to lose interest quickly and to allow their attention to drift off when they become bored or anxious.

Nines tend to spin grand, sweeping, idealistic solutions to problems, while Fives tend to speculate on problems, then on the problems that their problems have raised, then on those problems, ad infinitum. Nines may be gifted storytellers, able to communicate simply and effectively to others, even to children. Fives usually communicate to only a few or keep their ideas entirely to themselves. (Moreover, their ideas may be so complicated that they are difficult to communicate to all but other specialists.) Nines usually do not consider the consequences of their actions; Fives are extremely interested in predicting the consequences of every action. Nines idealize the world and create imaginary worlds in which good always triumphs over evil; Fives analyze the real world and create horrifying scenarios in which evil usually triumphs over good or exists in tension with it. Nines simplify; Fives complexify. Nines look to the past; Fives to the future. Nines are fantasists; Fives are theorists. Nines are disengaged; Fives are detached. Nines are utopians; Fives are nihilists. Nines are optimists; Fives are pessimists. Nines are open; Fives are resistant. Nines are non-threatening and nonjudgmental; Fives are defensive and contentious. Nines are at peace; Fives are in tension. Nines end in dissociation; Fives in paranoia.

Comparisons and contrasts such as these could be multiplied almost indefinitely because, while these two types are such opposites, they are also paradoxically similar. What they have in common is the tendency to ask "What if?" questions. The difference is in their response: Nines tend to ruminate on their fantasies, while Fives attempt to see if their ideas could come true. The Nine's ideas usually involve a single insight that, while true enough, is often impractical and goes nowhere. For instance, a Nine may think that the way to world peace is "for everyone to love one another." While this is doubtlessly true, the problem not addressed is how to get everyone to love one another. A Five wondering about the same problem would write a treatise on world peace after doing exhaustive historical research, eventually erecting a grand theory of peace. (The Five's ideas may also come to nothing, but at least they are pursued, and practical results may eventually come of them.) To give another example, a Nine might wonder what it is like to fly and make up a story about it. A Five might wonder how to fly and invent an airplane or do research on birds or design a rocket.

In short, Nines have an active fantasy life and think that they have deep thoughts. Sometimes they do, of course, although the thinking of intelligent, well-educated Nines tends to be in the direction of simplifying reality and cutting through abstruse thickets to get at the kernel of truth beneath. Nines tend to see things the way they want them to be; they reinterpret reality to make it more comforting and less threatening, simpler and less daunting. By contrast, the thinking of Fives is complex. By attempting to arrive at a grand unifying theory that encompasses and explains everything, average Fives end up involved in increasing complications and abstractions. Their thought is focused on specifics, often highly technical and concerned with foresight and the consequences of acting one way rather than another. But at an extreme, Fives risk seeing reality not as it is but as a projection of their preoccupations and fears. They distort their perceptions of reality so that reality seems more negative and threatening than it actually is.

Nines feel at ease in the world, and their style of thinking reflects their unconscious desire to merge with the world. Fives are afraid of being overwhelmed by the world, and their intellectual efforts are an unconscious defense against the world, an attempt to master it intellectually. There is a world of difference between these two types since they see the world so differently. Compare Charles Darwin (a Five) and Walt Disney (a Nine), Albert Einstein (a Five) and Jim Henson (a Nine) to understand the similarities and differences between these two types more clearly.

[Magic Poriferan]

Misidentifying Fives and Eights

These two types are not often mistyped, but share similar attitudes. Eights and Fives both see themselves as outsiders and both feel rejected easily. Both are highly independent, and willing to go to battle with anyone who threatens their independence. Both believe in direct communication, can be aggressive, and tend to protect their vulnerability.

Eights sometimes see themselves as Fives because they go to Five in stress, and therefore recall times when they have withdrawn from others to strategize and think about their future courses of action. Nonetheless, Eights more often deal with problems head on, and can be highly assertive in going after what they want. Fives, by contrast, tend to retreat from others and to cut off from many of their needs in order to avoid risking dependencies.

Eights are highly instinctual and very related to their bodies: they are people of practical action, pragmatism, and sensuality, as a result. Fives tend to stay in their heads more, and often have an ambivalent relationship with their bodies. Staying grounded and practical can be a problem for Fives–it is almost never one for Eights. Compare James Joyce (a Five) with Ernest Hemingway (an Eight).

[Evan]

i'm having problems deciding if i'm 1w2 or 2w1. i've had this problem before but i decided i was a two. but i've been thinking about it for the last week or so, and i may be slightly more detached/introverted than the 2s i know.

p.s. i read the enneagraminstitute misidentification thing already.

[Magic Poriferan]

Originally Posted by dissonance

i'm having problems deciding if i'm 1w2 or 2w1. i've had this problem before but i decided i was a two. but i've been thinking about it for the last week or so, and i may be slightly more detached/introverted than the 2s i know.

p.s. i read the enneagraminstitute misidentification thing already.

Would you ever put down your best friend to preserve your ethical ideals?(supposing you had to make that choice)

Also, just as a general thing... Tell me what you think the ideal approach to parenting is, and what you think a parent's objective should be.

[Evan]

Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan

Would you ever put down your best friend to preserve your ethical ideals?(supposing you had to make that choice)

put down? what do you mean? i would definitely say "i'm not with you on this choice" or something like that if i thought their intended action was morally wrong. but i'd still love them, and i'd make sure they still loved me

Also, just as a general thing... Tell me what you think the ideal approach to parenting is, and what you think a parent's objective should be.

i think a parent should help a child find his or her own life path, explaining possible consequences along the way. a parent should make sure to let the child know that their opinions are useful and valid, and should allow the child to make their own mistakes if necessary. it must also be clear that the child is responsible for the consequences of their actions.

parenting is about the KID (i wish my parents had understood that lol). it's not about making the child what you want them to be, you know?

[Magic Poriferan]

Hmmm...

The typical way to distinguish a One from A two is a matter of personal matters against ethical matters.

Simply, the One will probably make a person sacrifice for ethical demands, and a Two will probably make an ethical sacrifice for personal demands.

A one would turn-in their own friend for commiting a crime, and the Two would not. The Two is likely to over pamper and smother a child, whereas a One is likely to be too harsh and demanding.

Which of these do you think matches you more?