ENTP or ESTP?

[INTJMom]

I was just reading in the ENTP thread and now I'm questioning whether my father really is an ENTP or whether he is an ESTP.
Somebody said ENTPs don't have any faults - that's what triggered it.

The reason I thought he was not an S is because he has a horrible memory.

He loves to play baseball and fish.
He hasn't had a "normal" job in 40 years.
He drinks, gambles and womanizes.

Would an ENTP do all these things?

[Athenian200]

Originally Posted by INTJMom

I was just reading in the ENTP thread and now I'm questioning whether my father really is an ENTP or whether he is an ESTP.
Somebody said ENTPs don't have any faults - that's what triggered it.

The reason I thought he was not an S is because he has a horrible memory.

He loves to play baseball and fish.
He hasn't had a "normal" job in 40 years.
He drinks, gambles and womanizes.

Would an ENTP do all these things?

Ah... ESTP. I'm almost positive. ENTP's are more theoretical and such... Se is different from Si, and many ideas about S are more Si than Se.

Although he sounds like an unhealthy ESTP. The healthier ones usually find a better outlet for their Se abilities. Some even become managers on certain kinds of projects that SJ's would have trouble with.

[Randomnity]

Originally Posted by INTJMom

He loves to play baseball and fish.
He hasn't had a "normal" job in 40 years.
He drinks, gambles and womanizes.

Would an ENTP do all these things?

I know an ENTP (strong N) who does all of this, though he has a "normal" job.

[Vicki]

ESTPs seem to have a reputation for being like that don't they??

[INTJMom]

Hmm. I'm going to have to pay closer attention.
What differences am I looking for exactly?

[anii]

The main difference I'd say - and I'm guessing - is the ESTPs I've known are much more concerned about their own appearance than ENTPs. ENTPs are almost like mad professors with the wild hair and even wilder eyes - think Dr. Emmet Brown - and like to play devils advocate about ideas. They're too busy dreaming up big ideas and being renaissance people to care about whether their hair is messed up or their shirt is sloppy.

ESTPs are more pragmatic, and their 'devils advocacy' is in the form of manipulating people and things to their ends - even if that end is mere entertainment. It's almost like they get a sick thrill from pitting people against each other - maybe it plays to their gamesmanship. All of the ESTPs I've known took great pride in their appearance.

[INTJMom]

Originally Posted by anii

The main difference I'd say - and I'm guessing - is the ESTPs I've known are much more concerned about their own appearance than ENTPs. ENTPs are almost like mad professors with the wild hair and even wilder eyes - think Dr. Emmet Brown - and like to play devils advocate about ideas. They're too busy dreaming up big ideas and being renaissance people to care about whether their hair is messed up or their shirt is sloppy.

ESTPs are more pragmatic, and their 'devils advocacy' is in the form of manipulating people and things to their ends - even if that end is mere enjoyment. It's almost like they get a sick thrill from pitting people against each other - maybe it plays to their gamesmanship. All of the ESTPs I've known took great pride in their appearance.

Oh REAlly!
My father is 71 and still gets back in shape every spring, firming up his muscles, losing his gut.

Would he brag about being the BEST fisherman, and the BEST baseball pitcher?
(Or is that just testosterone?)

[anii]

Well, like I said, I'm guessing. That was the clearest distinction I could find.

[INTJMom]

Originally Posted by anii

Well, like I said, I'm guessing. That was the clearest distinction I could find.

Thank you for your help.
It looks like I've been wrong about him. He's probably an ESTP.
I'm going to check into it further.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by INTJMom

I was just reading in the ENTP thread and now I'm questioning whether my father really is an ENTP or whether he is an ESTP.
Somebody said ENTPs don't have any faults - that's what triggered it.

The reason I thought he was not an S is because he has a horrible memory.

He loves to play baseball and fish.
He hasn't had a "normal" job in 40 years.
He drinks, gambles and womanizes.

Would an ENTP do all these things?

The list you've described applies easily to at least male ESTPs. ENTPs actually are capable of all the things, but they tend to branch out into MANY areas. They also usually like to read and tinker voraciously with things. ESTPs will generally stay with "practical" pursuits, one that have some obvious advantage or gain; ENTPs are much more prone to flitting about and getting caught up in esoteric things, they will be even more all over the map in regards to their interests.

(ENTP Oberon, another poster here, for example, would be a Jeopardy trivia king. He knows anything from certain periods of history and cultural references to how to clean a gun and strip down a lawn engine mower, and he's written even drafts of screenplays.)

I also had thought my father to be an ENTP when I was younger, but over the last number of years I really reconsidered it (because his N was weak if it existed at all), and I think he is really an ESTP with a bit of a sensitive side that is reflected in his love for music and plants. (He still could be an ENTP, I suppose, but his N was very much beaten out of him by his father and life in general, if he is.)

AS far as drinking, womanizing, and gambling being "unhealthy" -- well, I guess it usually can be if taken to an extreme. It is simply that ESTPs are "rogues" by nature, so these pursuits are appealing because they're exciting and because they fly against social convention.