ENTP or ESTP?

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by Randomnity

I know an ENTP (strong N) who does all of this, though he has a "normal" job.

I think the "loves" is critical here. ENTPs do those things, but it's not a driving force.

Many (most?) EXTPs will fit the other two.

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by FDG

ESTPs are far more negative than ENTPs. ENTPs are usually rather optimistic people.

I think that is probably right.

ESTPs seem to see things as more of a conflict, where someone has to win and lose (and, of course, you know which one THEY plan to be). So they seem to more quickly butt heads and push towards conflict, like the football star who overpowers the opposition.

ENTPs tend to be more playful because they see more possibilities inherent in the situation, rather than the win/lose scenario. Although they can "fight" when they want to, I have found they tend to dance around the conflict and flow like water, so that you cannot as easily lay a hand on them.

[quietgirl]

Originally Posted by INTJMom

I was just reading in the ENTP thread and now I'm questioning whether my father really is an ENTP or whether he is an ESTP.
Somebody said ENTPs don't have any faults - that's what triggered it.

The reason I thought he was not an S is because he has a horrible memory.

Well, my ESTP mother has the worst memory out of everyone in my family. It's because she is literally shifting from moment to moment that she completely forgets about the previous moment.

[quietgirl]

I read that you are questioning the T/F...

One thing that makes it clear that my mother is a T, despite her charm (she oozes it) and charismatic way with people is her blunt, inability to consider anyone else's feelings when making decisions and even talking to people - UNLESS she wants something out of them, which is a whole 'nother story. Remember, the ESTP is your classic salesman. She does have an uncanny ability to seize the moment and manipulate the current situation to get what she wants.

Growing up, my mother was very prone to in the moment, insensitive outbursts that usually involved cutting words very directed at the target (occasionally, my brother (INFP) and I - imagine how hurt the two NF's were! ha!).

ESTP's are normally very people intelligent. My mother comes off as spacey, but if you ge beyond her Se dominant, she really does know exactly what she's doing.

I hope this doesn't paint a bad picture of her, as she's an amazing person and very kind to her family. But it should shed some light on the behavior of an ESTP.

[anii]

Originally Posted by Jennifer

ESTPs seem to see things as more of a conflict, where someone has to win and lose (and, of course, you know which one THEY plan to be). So they seem to more quickly butt heads and push towards conflict, like the football star who overpowers the opposition.

Or the "president" who strikes a pre-emptive war in an oil-rich country.

Sorry... it was just sitting there... so lonely. Begging for it, really.

ENTPs tend to be more playful because they see more possibilities inherent in the situation, rather than the win/lose scenario. Although they can "fight" when they want to, I have found they tend to dance around the conflict and flow like water, so that you cannot as easily lay a hand on them.

Yes, your differentiation seems accurate to me.

[xNFJiminy]

Originally Posted by INTJMom

I know sweetie! ALL people have faults. It's just that I have always seen my father as about 75% faults, and 25% good - so that's what triggered the idea that I might be wrong - and it turns out I WAS wrong.

Ah, I see. Based on your descriptions I agree - more ESXP.

[INTJMom]

Originally Posted by quietgirl

I read that you are questioning the T/F...

One thing that makes it clear that my mother is a T, despite her charm (she oozes it) and charismatic way with people is her blunt, inability to consider anyone else's feelings when making decisions and even talking to people - UNLESS she wants something out of them, which is a whole 'nother story. Remember, the ESTP is your classic salesman. She does have an uncanny ability to seize the moment and manipulate the current situation to get what she wants.

Growing up, my mother was very prone to in the moment, insensitive outbursts that usually involved cutting words very directed at the target (occasionally, my brother (INFP) and I - imagine how hurt the two NF's were! ha!).

ESTP's are normally very people intelligent. My mother comes off as spacey, but if you ge beyond her Se dominant, she really does know exactly what she's doing.

I hope this doesn't paint a bad picture of her, as she's an amazing person and very kind to her family. But it should shed some light on the behavior of an ESTP.

Thanks for your input.
I'm still not sure yet.

I remember him coming home, walking into the living room where we were watching tv.
He would walk over to the tv, and change the channel (before remotes were invented) to whatever he wanted to watch - as if we didn't even exist! That seems sort of T to me, but it could just be some other aspect that causes extremely selfish behavior.

[substitute]

Originally Posted by INTJMom

He's not likely to win a word battle with anyone.

This alone excludes him from any running for ENTP status. To us, words are like... well, they're like extensions of our own bodies... or rather, minds. They do as we bid them; they're our minions to command

And about avoiding confrontations and not wanting to fire people - I've known a few ESTP's and they always like to be seen as the good guy. They're very image conscious and can't stand to not be liked or thought of or seen as the bad guy.

[INTJMom]

Originally Posted by substitute

This alone excludes him from any running for ENTP status. To us, words are like... well, they're like extensions of our own bodies... or rather, minds. They do as we bid them; they're our minions to command

I thought you'd say that.

And about avoiding confrontations and not wanting to fire people - I've known a few ESTP's and they always like to be seen as the good guy. They're very image conscious and can't stand to not be liked or thought of or seen as the bad guy.

That does seem to be one of his defining factors. He does project the nice guy image.