Fe/Fi interactions with Te/Ti

[proteanmix]

Lifted from something miked277 said in another thread...

Originally Posted by miked277

...i actually think that's the way i come across to all Fi types. w/ Fe types, i basically am myself w/ them (quiet, serious, more or less nice) and they almost never misinterpret me, it's pretty refreshing... but that's for another thread...

Here's the other thread!

This is an interesting statement. As much as Fe/Ti and Fi/Te repel one another on what (if any) level are they most or more compatible? Are there any implicit understandings between Fe/Ti and Fi/Te as stand alone functions? For all the similarities between Fe/Te and Ti/Fi are there circumstances that the opposite function is better equipped to interpret and understand?

Just to refine the discussion, I'm not talking about the attract/repel patterns between FJs/TPs and FPs/TJs.

[Mempy]

Well, from what I know of Fi, it constantly checks to make sure that people's behavior is congruent with cherished values and beliefs. So perhaps Te, which organizes the outer world, can understand Fi in as much as Fi seeks to make a person's inner world organized.

What's interesting to think about is, apparently those whose strength is extroverted judging appear more organized on the outside, but their inner world tends to be completely unorganized. People whose strength is introverted judging are unorganized on the outside, but they're extremely organized on the inside.

Overall, I don't think Te and Fi can relate to each other as stand-alone functions, because their methods for decision-making are in opposition. Fi is on the north side of the compass and Te is on the south, and the same applies to Ti and Fe, and you can't go north and south at the same time. But the interesting thing is, those who have Fi in their top four functions also have Te, and those who have Fe in their top four also have Ti, making humans very interesting paradoxes indeed.

And I know you didn't want to talk about the attraction between FPs and TJs and between FJs and TPs, but perhaps that's the attraction between them; each sees a little of themselves in the other, but there's enough difference to be intriguing.

[wildcat]

Originally Posted by proteanmix

Lifted from something miked277 said in another thread...



Here's the other thread!

This is an interesting statement. As much as Fe/Ti and Fi/Te repel one another on what (if any) level are they most or more compatible? Are there any implicit understandings between Fe/Ti and Fi/Te as stand alone functions? For all the similarities between Fe/Te and Ti/Fi are there circumstances that the opposite function is better equipped to interpret and understand?

Just to refine the discussion, I'm not talking about the attract/repel patterns between FJs/TPs and FPs/TJs.

You are talking about things you are not talking.
This is what you said.

[Athenian200]

Originally Posted by proteanmix

Lifted from something miked277 said in another thread...



Here's the other thread!

This is an interesting statement. As much as Fe/Ti and Fi/Te repel one another on what (if any) level are they most or more compatible? Are there any implicit understandings between Fe/Ti and Fi/Te as stand alone functions? For all the similarities between Fe/Te and Ti/Fi are there circumstances that the opposite function is better equipped to interpret and understand?

Just to refine the discussion, I'm not talking about the attract/repel patterns between FJs/TPs and FPs/TJs.

Okay. I have a little idea about what the judgment functions do. I've said it before, but I think it might be good to explain again.

Fe -- Uses external rules created to promote social harmony. Uses these rules to modify the internal emotional systems of others in a desirable manner.

Fi -- Uses internal principles created from direct experience of one's internal emotional system. Uses these rules to accord the environment with one's own feelings.

Te -- Uses external rules created to determine truth. Uses these rules to modify what others perceive as true/false, as well as modify external systems via these rules.

Ti -- Uses internal principles created from experience with external logical systems. Uses these rules to accord the environment with one's own perception of truth/perfection.

The main thing Fe and Ti have in common is that they both have rules on one side, and a system on the other. Fe modifies the internal (emotional) system via external (social) rules, and Ti modifies the external system via internal rules. They do basically the same thing in reverse, with different goals.

Fi and Te, on the other hand, use rules that are in the same part of reality as the system. Te creates/uses external rules in external systems, Fi creates/uses internal rules from observation of internal emotions, perhaps eventually to accord other's systems with these rules.

Fi and Ti both observe a form of reality, and create an internal system of rules to mirror it, and try to accord the environment with that internal system. The difference lies in which form of reality they focus on. Fi focuses on an internal emotional reality, Ti on a logical system/abstraction of some kind.

Fe and Te both attempt to modify a system based on external, generally accepted rules. The difference is in what sort of system they try to modify. Te focuses on modifying an external system and other people's perception of truth, and Fe focuses on modifying an internal emotional system and other people's perception of emotion.

Does that make sense?

[wildcat]

Originally Posted by athenian200

Okay. I have a little idea about what the judgment functions do. I've said it before, but I think it might be good to explain again.

Fe -- Uses external rules created to promote social harmony. Uses these rules to modify the internal emotional systems of others in a desirable manner.

Fi -- Uses internal principles created from direct experience of one's internal emotional system. Uses these rules to accord the environment with one's own feelings.

Te -- Uses external rules created to determine truth. Uses these rules to modify what others perceive as true/false, as well as modify external systems via these rules.

Ti -- Uses internal principles created from experience with external logical systems. Uses these rules to accord the environment with one's own perception of truth/perfection.

The main thing Fe and Ti have in common is that they both have rules on one side, and a system on the other. Fe modifies the internal (emotional) system via external (social) rules, and Ti modifies the external system via internal rules. They do basically the same thing in reverse, with different goals.

Fi and Te, on the other hand, use rules that are in the same part of reality as the system. Te creates/uses external rules in external systems, Fi creates/uses internal rules from observation of internal emotions, perhaps eventually to accord other's systems with these rules.

Fi and Ti both observe a form of reality, and create an internal system of rules to mirror it, and try to accord the environment with that internal system. The difference lies in which form of reality they focus on. Fi focuses on an internal emotional reality, Ti on a logical system/abstraction of some kind.

Fe and Te both attempt to modify a system based on external, generally accepted rules. The difference is in what sort of system they try to modify. Te focuses on modifying an external system and other people's perception of truth, and Fe focuses on modifying an internal emotional system and other people's perception of emotion.

Does that make sense?

Very good.
A little blemish though.

External rules are subjective.
Truth is objective.

[proteanmix]

Originally Posted by wildcat

You are talking about things you are not talking.
This is what you said.

Explain please.

Originally Posted by athenian200

Does that make sense?

Yeah, I knew all that. I need to think about this more so I can ask an answerable question.

I envision the functions on a spectrum where Fe-Te, Ti-Fi, Ne-Se, etc. are on opposite sides of the spectrum. So it makes more sense that Ti-Fe, for example, to repel like magnets because they're not on the same continuum. I was wondering that instead of Fe-Te being on a spectrum, maybe it could be Te-Fi or something, which would explain what miked277 was talking about. I'm trying to find the relationship for opposing functions, because they're related.

[Athenian200]

Originally Posted by proteanmix

Explain please.



Yeah, I knew all that. I need to think about this more so I can ask an answerable question.

I envision the functions on a spectrum where Fe-Te, Ti-Fi, Ne-Se, etc. are on opposite sides of the spectrum. So it makes more sense that Ti-Fe, for example, to repel like magnets because they're not on the same continuum. I was wondering that instead of Fe-Te being on a spectrum, maybe it could be Te-Fi or something, which would explain what miked277 was talking about. I'm trying to find the relationship for opposing functions, because they're related.

Of course it is. The reason is, any person who has Fe as dominant or auxiliary has Ti as tertiary or inferior, and vice-versa. The thing is, they do the same thing in reverse, with different goals, as do Te and Fi.

Here's what the spectrum looks like to me. I elaborate on it here:

Ti/Fe -- Creates rules by which to subjugate/modify one form of internal/external reality from the opposite form. (Ti with rules/principles internal, system external. Fe with rules external, system internal.)
Fi/Te -- Creates rules which are determined by observing an internal/external form of reality, and modifies the same reality. (Fi internal/internal, Te external/external)
Se/Ni -- Deals with the experience and construction of our reality.
Si/Ne -- Deals with the comparison of reality to other things.

Did I explain it better this time?

[proteanmix]

So could this mean (as I've heard a few other posters mention) that SPs have more access and use of Ni than NPs, SJs more Ne than NJs, NJs more Se than SJs, TJs more Fi than FJs, and so one down the line for various functions?

[Athenian200]

Originally Posted by proteanmix

So could this mean (as I've heard a few other posters mention) that SPs have more access and use of Ni than NPs, SJs more Ne than NJs, NJs more Se than SJs, TJs more Fi than FJs, and so one down the line for various functions?

Technically, yes, but they have most of it unconscious, so it goes untapped. The unconscious side is usually used by the unconscious to supplement the conscious function. To use that function consciously is to "think backwards," essentially. But I think an xNFJ would technically be better at Ti or Se than Ne or Fi once they tap into it. Ne and Fi would only be "shadows" resembling those functions, and so would Si and Te. Tapping into the inferior directly would technically give good results, but to do so would require a person to subjugate their ego to the shadow, which wouldn't be healthy, at least not at earlier stages of development, because your sense of self usually comes from your dominant function. It's only after you've fully mastered your tertiary that it's safe to move to your inferior, and even then internal psychological resistance might prevent it.

Here's my example:
INFJ

Unconscious: Se Ti Si Te
Conscious: Ni Fe Ne Fi

or
ENFJ

Unconscious: Ti Se Te Si
Conscious: Fe Ni Fi Ne

This is all guesswork (since I can't look in people's heads and check), but it makes sense to me.

[Santtu]

Originally Posted by proteanmix

As much as Fe/Ti and Fi/Te repel one another on what (if any) level are they most or more compatible? Are there any implicit understandings between Fe/Ti and Fi/Te as stand alone functions?

Do you mean in same or different persons, and being primary, secondary or tertiary or what?