Jack Flak's Function System Adventure

[Travo7]

Originally Posted by INTJMom

So why are you saying that INTJs do more Te than they do Ni?

I was just thinking that...

[Jack Flak]

Originally Posted by Travo7

I was just thinking that...

I suggest you read my answer then.

[bluemonday]

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

This is unimportant. You have to call Intuition something.

? If it's unimportant, wth is this thread about?

I am not getting this at all. You haven't discredited function theory other than to say it's rubbish - which is less than persuasive. And you haven't provided any reasons to suggest why your approach makes more sense.

[Xander]

Not a different function but a different arena in which it is applied. Ask an INTJ to reason themselves and they think for hours and it takes effort. Ask an INTP and it flows like prematured wine (or bilge). It's all thinking but it's a notation upon which arena the subject prefers to apply it in.

Oh and I think you'll find that INTPs are primarily judging in their thinking but they are P when extraverting. J/P is external.

[bluemonday]

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

You have to determine I/E independently. And if you're NFJ your Primary function is Feeling, which commonly works in tandem with Intuition.

How can you say I/E are independent of Feeling, when feeling in an INFP and feeling in an ESFJ are such qualitatively and experiencially different things?

This makes no sense.

If you don't want to call it introverted feeling and extroverted feeling, you may as well call it apples and oranges.

[Jack Flak]

Originally Posted by bluemonday

? If it's unimportant, wth is this thread about?

I am not getting this at all. You haven't discredited function theory other than to say it's rubbish - which is less than persuasive. And you haven't provided any reasons to suggest why your approach makes more sense.

Yes I have: It's simpler. It's all based on the four preferences. If you're I, you're Introverted. If you're N, you prefer Intuition. If you're T, you prefer Thinking. If you're P, you prefer Perceiving, hence your Primary function is Intuition.

I'm convinced that the only reason anyone has a problem with it is because the less correct information has been available and accepted by so many for so long.

Originally Posted by Xander

Not a different function but a different arena in which it is applied. Ask an INTJ to reason themselves and they think for hours and it takes effort. Ask an INTP and it flows like prematured wine (or bilge). It's all thinking but it's a notation upon which arena the subject prefers to apply it in.

Reasoning, as it's commonly referred to, is not as simple as the Thinking function.

Oh and I think you'll find that INTPs are primarily judging in their thinking but they are P when extraverting. J/P is external.

Yeah, I know. Thinking is always Judging, and Perceiving is always related to input--The present environment, or memory.

[Jack Flak]

Originally Posted by bluemonday

How can you say I/E are independent of Feeling, when feeling in an INFP and feeling in an ESFJ are such qualitatively and experiencially different things?

This makes no sense.

Stop. You're arguing against things I have never said, nor thought.

Use of the functions is affected by I/E. It doesn't change the definitions of the functions.

[Travo7]

Originally Posted by Xander

Not a different function but a different arena in which it is applied. Ask an INTJ to reason themselves and they think for hours and it takes effort. Ask an INTP and it flows like prematured wine (or bilge). It's all thinking but it's a notation upon which arena the subject prefers to apply it in.

Oh and I think you'll find that INTPs are primarily judging in their thinking but they are P when extraverting. J/P is external.

Right, but maybe the reason an INTP can do this is because he has spent time thinking about it, since Ti is a judging function. In other words it's been "set in stone".
An INTJ may have take longer because Ni is a perceiving function, not a decision-making one.

[bluemonday]

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

Yes I have: It's simpler. It's all based on the four preferences. If you're I, you're Introverted. If you're N, you prefer Intuition. If you're T, you prefer Thinking. If you're P, you prefer Perceiving, hence your Primary function is Intuition.

I'm convinced that the only reason anyone has a problem with it is because the less correct information has been available and accepted by so many for so long.

Because you're the only one with the power to discriminate between a valid argument and a load of nonsense, I suppose. Pretty arrogant.

Your preferences aren't conceptually related. I/E is an attitude, so is J/P. S/N, T/F are functions. You can't just lump them all together and call them the same sort of thing. It's invalid.

[bluemonday]

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

Stop. You're arguing against things I have never said, nor thought.

Use of the functions is affected by I/E. It doesn't change the definitions of the functions.

We can only define the functions by the behaviours associated with them. We can't model what is actually going on the in the brain (other than with the crude PET scanning I was talking about earlier). Therefore, if the behaviours associated with Fi and Fe are different, then Fi and Fe are different.