• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Is Jung Cognitive Functions Wrong?

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
People determine their type way too often based on what they may score on a congnitve functions test, but the funny thing is, they may be, say, an INTP with higher Ni than Ti and Ne! I just don't think jung cognitive functions is that solid of a theory. I would be very interested if someone could prove me wrong.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
If you're an INTP with high Ti and Ni...you're an ISTP, bro.

Some people believe that Keirsey temperaments are the only way...but even on the Keirsey forum I was typed as ESFP (E for Expressive, not E for Extrovert).

If there's anything that has convinced me that I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT A SOCIAL EXTROVERT it is the past month. Which is one of the reasons I stick with ISFP.

Also because when I take functions tests my highest function is Fi, and my lowest functions are both T functions, which means I'm rejecting Thinking.

I have taken functions tests that said I am INFJ...but that's because I tend to score high on Ni on functions tests because of the way the questions are worded (and my own over-estimation of my Ni). For example, when I first took Keys 2 Cognition a couple of years ago it said I was INFJ. I couldn't figure out why I had such high Fi and Ni, and why my Ni was sometimes higher than my Ne. Derp.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
If you're an INTP with high Ti and Ni...you're an ISTP, bro.

Some people believe that Keirsey temperaments are the only way...but even on the Keirsey forum I was typed as ESFP (E for Expressive, not E for Extrovert).

If there's anything that has convinced me that I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT A SOCIAL EXTROVERT it is the past month. Which is one of the reasons I stick with ISFP.

Also because when I take functions tests my highest function is Fi, and my lowest functions are both T functions, which means I'm rejecting Thinking.

I have taken functions tests that said I am INFJ...but that's because I tend to score high on Ni on functions tests because of the way the questions are worded (and my own over-estimation of my Ni). For example, when I first took Keys 2 Cognition a couple of years ago it said I was INFJ. I couldn't figure out why I had such high Fi and Ni, and why my Ni was sometimes higher than my Ne. Derp.

This is exactly why the functions theory fails, because you and me are scoring higher on functions not on the top of our list, and Ni definitely comes before Se.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
This is exactly why the functions theory fails, because you and me are scoring higher on functions not on the top of our list, and Ni definitely comes before Se.

No it just means you're in an introverted loop.

I, on the other hand, am not anymore. But I'm pretty sure I was in the past, sometime in my early-to-mid twenties.

It would really help you to get back in touch with your Se.
 

Lux

Kraken down on piracy
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Messages
1,458
I like the theory, but I dislike the functions tests. I think they skew things and if you know anything about it then the questions are too transparent. It'd be cool to have a real situation test...
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
No it just means you're in an introverted loop.

I, on the other hand, am not anymore. But I'm pretty sure I was in the past, sometime in my early-to-mid twenties.

It would really help you to get back in touch with your Se.

There my signature says ISTP. I was wrong. You did it! Congragulations.
 

Asrai

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
3
MBTI Type
INFP
Well I'm INFP but sometimes test as INFJ, and I believe that has to do with my S and T scores being really close to begin with, and me adapting to certain situations.
 
Last edited:

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
There my signature says ISTP. I was wrong. You did it! Congragulations.

Well I mean I know someone who was in an Si/Fi loop who kept calling himself ISFJ, when he clearly had about as much Fe as an ice-cube, and he kept saying how "extremely introverted" he was, and he was practically immobilized in his life...and when he was active, it seemed more about organizing or controlling his external space, not about people...in fact he admitted to quite a deep hatred of people, and a "you kids better get off my goddamn lawn" attitude toward children...and yeah, as soon as he got back in touch with his Te he was blazing off, it's like it pulled him out of his looooong rut.

Of course, unfortunately, I think he may have dipped into a Te/Ne loop in the beginning, causing him to act kind of like a crazy asshole.
 

527468

deleted
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
1,945
Jung functions is just one theory, which you can use with MBTI even if that means inconsistency. You can use or devise whatever theory of functions you would like if it works. What I usually use for MBTI is the preferential theory that works exactly with the 4 function theory, so that the strengths of both the preferences and functions go from primary > secondary > tertiary > inferior.

This means if you merely test Ni > Ne > Ti, the test is accounting for your intuition preference over everything else and you're most likely INTJ or ENTP. Usually the P/J dichotomy is funky because it only accounts for 1/2 of the functions and introverts primarily use none of those. (Which is why) just see my signature.

Typing J can be based around the structure and sense of rules you're used to, and typing P early in life can also just be a sign of general immaturity and uncertainties about life, or even basic openmindedness which all the types have. Sometimes people think very black-and-white, sometimes they're all over the place, sometimes pretty balanced, all dependent on what it is they're dealing with. Give it some time and get a feel of what your true primary mindset is, regardless of what it is you think you have to be.
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
People determine their type way too often based on what they may score on a congnitve functions test, but the funny thing is, they may be, say, an INTP with higher Ni than Ti and Ne! I just don't think jung cognitive functions is that solid of a theory. I would be very interested if someone could prove me wrong.

those function tests doesent measure jungs functions, they are called jungian functions for some stupid reason unknown, even tho those function definitions are quite far away from jungs definitions.

jungs functions rock, these wanna be jungian functions sucks balls
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Can somebody give a good description of what a Ti-Ni loop is? Thanks!
 
G

garbage

Guest
We tend to regard someone with high Ne and Te as an ENFP in such-and-such a loop, because that's the only way they'll fit the theory. We then extrapolate based upon that ENFP typing, viewing them as we would anyone else whom we type as ENFP. Classic.

We also tell ourselves that we're Jungian cognitive functions to get at the cognitive core of an individual, yet we turn around and use them to predict surface-level behaviors. Also classic.

One might wind up believing that JCF is bullshit because it's often applied in ways that it ought not to be applied, attempting to explain things with it that it's not equipped or even intended to explain.

:popc1:
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
We tend to regard someone with high Ne and Te as an ENFP in such-and-such a loop, because that's the only way they'll fit the theory. We then extrapolate based upon that ENFP typing, viewing them as we would anyone else whom we type as ENFP. Classic.

We also tell ourselves that we're Jungian cognitive functions to get at the cognitive core of an individual, yet we turn around and use them to predict surface-level behaviors. Also classic.

One might wind up believing that JCF is bullshit because it's often applied in ways that it ought not to be applied, attempting to explain things with it that it's not equipped or even intended to explain.

:popc1:

or maybe people in Ne/Te loops are really ENTJs? Doubtful. There's still more Fi in an ENFP in an Ne/Te loop than in an ENTJ.

Also, sometimes I swear people think they're seeing Te and its really Se (as in my case).
 
G

garbage

Guest
or maybe people in Ne/Te loops are really ENTJs? Doubtful. There's still more Fi in an ENFP in an Ne/Te loop than in an ENTJ.
I didn't say anything about the person in an Ne/Te loop being an ENTJ, either. ENTJs don't "have" Ne :)shrug:). But, hell, even that's tangential to my point, my answer to the question posed by the OP--which is summed up in that third paragraph up there.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I didn't say anything about the person in an Ne/Te loop being an ENTJ, either. ENTJs don't "have" Ne :)shrug:). But, hell, even that's tangential to my point, my answer to the question posed by the OP--which is summed up in that third paragraph up there.

So someone in an Ne/Te loop is an ENTP then?
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
By definition, no.

But these questions aren't my concern.

Well if cognitive loops aren't real, then I want you to explain to me why they aren't, because otherwise you're just standing in the middle of the room screaming this isn't real because you said so.

I mean someone who shows signs of being in a cognitive loop tends to be extroverted to the point of lacking introspection, or even being invasive to other people...while someone in an introverted loop tends to be extraordinarily introverted to the point that they may be avoidant, delusional, or simply unable to make contact with the external world in any kind of meaningful or productive way.

Furthermore, as I said, Ne/Te doesn't equal ENTJ, typically you can see more Fi even with someone in an Ne/Te loop. They don't really look like an ENTJ.

So I'm asking you for another explanation without dismissing it without thinking about it.
 

sculpting

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
4,148
Can somebody give a good description of what a Ti-Ni loop is? Thanks!


like in an istp?

perhaps it is what istp depression looks like? (it is a very bitter misanthropicness that tends to not tolerate happiness around them)
paranoia and thinking everyone else thnks you are inferior or stupid? Just throwing out ideas so I could be totally wrong.

Beautiful TiNi makes amazing art and does amazing adaptive kinisthetic excellence. Fast, prestine, finely aimed precision.
 
G

garbage

Guest
Well if cognitive loops aren't real, then I want you to explain to me why they aren't, because otherwise you're just standing in the middle of the room screaming this isn't real because you said so.
I didn't say that cognitive function loops aren't real. The function loops themselves aren't even my point.

I also really don't owe you an explanation, and I think your criterion for "not having thought about something" is completely off.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I didn't say that cognitive function loops aren't real. The function loops themselves aren't even my point.

I also really don't owe you an explanation, and I think your criterion for "not having thought about something" is completely off.

It's not about "owing me an explanation" it's about making your ideas clearly understood. For example, if you gave a detailed argument, you might convince me that your perspective was right, partly right, or at least I could see why you feel that way, even if I don't agree with you.

I think you're looking at this with Fe and I'm looking at it with Te, because this isn't about "personally owing" me anything, but about making yourself rationally clear on your position.
 
Top