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  1. #11
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Past experiences are not data points. Past experiences are what you pick up. Ni does not pick up past data points, it picks up past concepts which i believe is what i said. There is a huge difference between the 2.

    INTJ boss: we did this in the other group and this is why it didnt work...insert concept here. Take your pick of future or past....i see both. Past leading to future. INTJ are just as heavy past as INTJ UNLESS you add the word data points. Its a different story when you "qualify" it. I come across this alot with INTJs. Its different then ISTJs which i agree are data points.

    "assumptions" - things left out that are just assumed based on...
    I don't think you understand how introverted intuition works. You're making assertions based on what you are observing without knowing what's going on behind the scenes. It's about amassing a number of data points of various kinds and intuiting what is going to happen in the future. The more data points, the more accurate the prediction is. The idea of a concept falls far down the chain to the actual predication as to what would happen or the insight to explain why something has happened in the past (which is only useful because of its future predictive value). What you are saying sounds more INTPish. The perception of an INTJ can change quickly if evidence presents itself to the contrary. It's previous experience, actual facts, broader historical experiences and trends, indicators of future trends, what experts are saying, what is observed in body language, etc. All these collective data points are evaluated and somehow crystalized into a view on some particular thing. I think you're trying to narrow down the thinking to a much narrower lens than is accurate. We might appear speak in concepts at times but it is more about the insight with respect to a particular situation. Why did things turn out the way they did? What might happen in the future?

    I think you are unknowingly oversimplifying this because you are a thinker and a sensor. It's much more complex than you realize or than the vast majority of people understand.

    It doesn't mean the way of thinking is superior. It can be horribly and drastically wrong if the data points are inadequate for example.

    Also, when you are speaking "assumptions" this classical introverted thinking at play. For an introverted intuitive, it matters far less that the thinking is correct. What matters is accurately predicting what will happen. Logic is important but secondary. It's the end result that matters.

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  2. #12
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    1. Do I find the person attractive?
    2. Do I find the person attractive tomorrow?
    3. Why can't I stop staring at this person?
    4. What does this person like?
    5. Why does this person like what they like?
    6. What kind of person are they?
    7. Will this person hear me out?
    8. What will happen if I do X?
    9. Are we alone?
    10. Waiting for opportunity
    11. Person invites opportunity to engage in communication or social interaction. INTJ misses it, over thinks when person tries send signals.
    12. Waiting for opportunity
    13. Proceed with first attempt to actual communication.
    14. Person moved on long ago.


    Life
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  3. #13
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Yes, but do INTJs fall into the N trap of thinking they know the answers without a lot of actual direct experience? They tend to use the past knowledge experience to dictate the here and now which may or may not apply. I personally don't find INTJ cost benefit analysis very good for picking out a relationship as they don't fully see the person or situation in front of them, but a mere set of cost benefit analysis concepts that have a higher priority. Basically create a lot of concepts with little data. While the concepts do fit the data, they don't always fit real life based on how often the data appears or the minute detail of it that's missed due to the quick disconnect from life into concepts.
    I agree

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I don't think you understand how introverted intuition works. You're making assertions based on what you are observing without knowing what's going on behind the scenes. It's about amassing a number of data points of various kinds and intuiting what is going to happen in the future. The more data points, the more accurate the prediction is. The idea of a concept falls far down the chain to the actual predication as to what would happen or the insight to explain why something has happened in the past (which is only useful because of its future predictive value). What you are saying sounds more INTPish. The perception of an INTJ can change quickly if evidence presents itself to the contrary. It's previous experience, actual facts, broader historical experiences and trends, indicators of future trends, what experts are saying, what is observed in body language, etc. All these collective data points are evaluated and somehow crystalized into a view on some particular thing. I think you're trying to narrow down the thinking to a much narrower lens than is accurate. We might appear speak in concepts at times but it is more about the insight with respect to a particular situation. Why did things turn out the way they did? What might happen in the future?

    I think you are unknowingly oversimplifying this because you are a thinker and a sensor. It's much more complex than you realize or than the vast majority of people understand.

    It doesn't mean the way of thinking is superior. It can be horribly and drastically wrong if the data points are inadequate for example.

    Also, when you are speaking "assumptions" this classical introverted thinking at play. For an introverted intuitive, it matters far less that the thinking is correct. What matters is accurately predicting what will happen. Logic is important but secondary. It's the end result that matters.
    To complicated for a sensor...lmao. lets have fun and flip it. Reality is to complicated for an intuitive to understand.

    Introverted intuition is a perceiving function that focuses its energy on thoughts, ideas, and concepts that may reveal something in the future. It analyzes the past and present and connects dots to (often) accurately reveal to the Ni user a “vision” or perception of what is to come.Aug 10, 2015
    Remove accurate...as thats a biased opinion. I actually find it accurate when placed in situations that resemble the past experiences, in new situations that are different its like throwing darts at a dart board not realizing we are playing poker. It matches EXACTLY what i said. I think you are making this more complicated then it actually is a common INTJ trait.

    I have never thought of N as superior, i grew up around them. I know the good/bad aside from what "theoretical" says. I actually work very well with them because of that.
    Im out, its been fun

  5. #15
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Remove accurate...as thats a biased opinion. I actually find it accurate when placed in situations that resemble the past experiences, in new situations that are different its like throwing darts at a dart board not realizing we are playing poker. It matches EXACTLY what i said. I think you are making this more complicated then it actually is a common INTJ trait.

    I have never thought of N as superior, i grew up around them. I know the good/bad aside from what "theoretical" says. I actually work very well with them because of that.
    "Accurate" in an abstract discussion may be unsupportable. For an individual Ni-dom, however, it is descriptive and justified based on their track record of how closely those analyses and projections correspond to what actually happens. Most of us learn to weight our predictions accordingly, knowing when we have a greater or lesser likelihood of being right, based on past performance. As the financial brochures note, past performance is no guarantee of future success, but it is worthwhile information, just like the track record of a company or financial manager.

    IME in relationships we are more likely to be wrong, simply because of the nature of the information involved. If we are insightful or just a bit lucky, we will realize this weigh our analyses accordingly. If not . . . well, the world no doubt is full of INTJs who have gone down that path.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    "Accurate" in an abstract discussion may be unsupportable. For an individual Ni-dom, however, it is descriptive and justified based on their track record of how closely those analyses and projections correspond to what actually happens. Most of us learn to weight our predictions accordingly, knowing when we have a greater or lesser likelihood of being right, based on past performance. As the financial brochures note, past performance is no guarantee of future success, but it is worthwhile information, just like the track record of a company or financial manager.

    IME in relationships we are more likely to be wrong, simply because of the nature of the information involved. If we are insightful or just a bit lucky, we will realize this weigh our analyses accordingly. If not . . . well, the world no doubt is full of INTJs who have gone down that path.
    I do honestly think that Js are MUCH better at finding that right person at an older age then a younger age. Not saying Ps are better at a younger age, just i noticed Js tend to put happiness as opposed to goals or other things much higher in the required range at an older age. That tends to be when they find it.

    In regard to predictions...its solely based on the INTJs experience in that area, though they tend to think they are right as thats what they see as the answer. Maybe as someone who is competent and not sees things for what they are, i dont fall into the "common" traps INTJs "see" as others do.

    INTJs also dont see others strengths so when they "see" an issue in the future they tend to base the outcome not on the person who deals with it, but on their own judgement of intensity of the situation. This makes others paths look stupid because all hells gonna break loose when in actuality it wont because the person involved has no problems handling what an INTJ deems as hell. ISTJs face the same issue with their perception. Us introverted judging doms are the opposite actually as we know that some people can handle situations so as opposed to a stop the world shit is gonna hit the fan we actually sit back and watch to see how the person does as a method to build our framework. In "introverted only" INTJ will be blind to that fact and can not get past yis own introverted feelings to actually see the world and adjust his own perceptions to the fact.

    What is better...pre or post analysis...actually depends on the other people involved. I am biased as i lean to post because you miss so much learning and reality by stopping things and cutting them off early when you can just tread softly and adjust and adapt as things come up. Use the foresight to prepare and adjust as you go.
    Im out, its been fun
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  7. #17
    Ambience seeker burningranger's Avatar
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    What are some good examples of female INTJ celebrities? I use to be a good typer, but now I'm dumb af. I've been curious to meet an INTJ chick all my life to see if this ENFP+INTJ chemistry thing is true or a decadent lie meant to hypnotize the masses. I need me some references for visualization purposes. Help me?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    I do honestly think that Js are MUCH better at finding that right person at an older age then a younger age. Not saying Ps are better at a younger age, just i noticed Js tend to put happiness as opposed to goals or other things much higher in the required range at an older age. That tends to be when they find it.

    In regard to predictions...its solely based on the INTJs experience in that area, though they tend to think they are right as thats what they see as the answer. Maybe as someone who is competent and not sees things for what they are, i dont fall into the "common" traps INTJs "see" as others do.

    INTJs also dont see others strengths so when they "see" an issue in the future they tend to base the outcome not on the person who deals with it, but on their own judgement of intensity of the situation. This makes others paths look stupid because all hells gonna break loose when in actuality it wont because the person involved has no problems handling what an INTJ deems as hell. ISTJs face the same issue with their perception. Us introverted judging doms are the opposite actually as we know that some people can handle situations so as opposed to a stop the world shit is gonna hit the fan we actually sit back and watch to see how the person does as a method to build our framework. In "introverted only" INTJ will be blind to that fact and can not get past yis own introverted feelings to actually see the world and adjust his own perceptions to the fact.

    What is better...pre or post analysis...actually depends on the other people involved. I am biased as i lean to post because you miss so much learning and reality by stopping things and cutting them off early when you can just tread softly and adjust and adapt as things come up. Use the foresight to prepare and adjust as you go.
    I agree. From experience, INTJs don't seem much better at picking people because they can succumb to the same follies as most other people. Actually, because the type tends to be more socially reserved, they can rationalize toxic relational situations and stick with them easily with the ability to readily compartmentalize overall objectives over emotions. Loneliness + the urge to problem-solve + lesser confidence in Ni+Fi in regards to interpersonal matters can sometimes mean they will prolong unhealthy situations but when they make up their mind to end things, it's over. It's like they know something is up, but if it doesn't make complete logical sense, there seems to be doubt and indecision. In contrast, with my Fe+Ni, I am quick to see things and back away.
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  9. #19
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    Intp w/ Intj. The J isn't totally apparent outside of work and arguments with others. I'm definitely the more obsessive planner and anticipator of disaster. He makes choices and I'm always freaking out over whether enough prep has been put into that decision. Overall the balance is good, but my anxiety surely isn't quelled by the Jness.
    [B]Ti=Ne>Ni>Fe>Te=Fi>Si>Se

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    Quote Originally Posted by laintpe
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