INTJ woman + ENFJ man

[Tilt]

I have this with people as well. And it sucks ass when you absolutely know a person is bad-news-to-downright-dangerous but likewise know no one will be able to see it until it is too late. Well, it might only suck ass for the insanely protective idk. I am actually curious to know how you handle these things if you don't mind me asking. I'm at the point today where I'm starting off new relationships like this: If I ever tell you to avoid someone for your own well being or safety please, please, please take heed of what I say.

I don't navigate the physical environment all that well though and am also curious to hear of the ENFJ experience with the same if you have a moment...that would be so interesting to me.

I notice something off, then I warn people while making contingency plans in the background. Or I will make a big enough stink to force someone's hand. Sometimes I keep the information to myself and let things play out and find ways to make the fall have a softer landing.

Just warning people over and over usually doesn't do much. When my ENFP sister does that I often it interpret as an overreaction.

 

[Starry]

Just warning people over and over usually doesn't do much. When my ENFP sister does that I often it interpret as an overreaction.

 

[Cellmold]

I have this with people as well. And it sucks ass when you absolutely know a person is bad-news-to-downright-dangerous but likewise know no one will be able to see it until it is too late. Well, it might only suck ass for the insanely protective idk. I am actually curious to know how you handle these things if you don't mind me asking. I'm at the point today where I'm starting off new relationships like this: If I ever tell you to avoid someone for your own well being or safety please, please, please take heed of what I say.

I don't navigate the physical environment all that well though and am also curious to hear of the ENFJ experience with the same if you have a moment...that would be so interesting to me.

It's all those little subtleties. Something as small as an inflection or a tendency of word choice, tilt of the head, narrowing of the eyes at a certain moment...etc.

It's most noticeable in the overconfident because they overplay their hand and let slip all their hidden signals which betray their true agendas. For me it is a retroactive experience, the signal is sighted, the alarms raised and then I carefully examine and quietly watch to see if the instinct is justified.

I guess it's some 'in touch with the unconscious moment' (or 'ITWUM') and it is mainly to do with implicitness, particularly body language.

Then if it proves true I stand in front of them with an accusatory finger and shout "ITWUM!!!!" until I get escorted away.

Though I can get it wrong like anyone.

 

[Starry]

It's all those little subtleties. Something as small as an inflection or a tendency of word choice, tilt of the head, narrowing of the eyes at a certain moment...etc.

It's most noticeable in the overconfident because they overplay their hand and let slip all their hidden signals which betray their true agendas. For me it is a retroactive experience, the signal is sighted, the alarms raised and then I carefully examine and quietly watch to see if the instinct is justified.

I guess it's some 'in touch with the unconscious moment' (or 'ITWUM') and it is mainly to do with implicitness, particularly body language.

Then if it proves true I stand in front of them with an accusatory finger and shout "ITWUM!!!!" until I get escorted away.

Though I can get it wrong like anyone.

Cellmold, I feel very happy for this opportunity to interact with you and like all kinds of great things will happen today having started it off in this manner...

ITWUM man.

Yah, this is one of those things that is not all that currently cool to suggest about yourself - that you have a read on others. That you are hard to fool. That you can do the math... that you can stand at the trailhead and know the trek. That you can walk on water and people really appreciate all the money they save due to your unique wine-making abilities... It is essential really to include the "sometimes I'm wrong" disclaimer if you do.

I don't mind so much discussing my own abilities in the regard because I know I'm not doing anything special or magical...it is all very practical based on the sum total of my life's experiences...it wouldn't make sense for me not to know who is who sooner rather than later. My process though I shouldn't make mention of and expect to be taken seriously. What you describe seeing sounds very sane...similar to what they train FBI interrogators, etc. to be on the lookout for <-a fair amount of which is based on the same behaviors and actions that professional poker players track in their opponents.

I wait until I hear a hollow tone in a person voice prior to piecing together their "Oh, this ain't good" puzzle and yes, I'll go ahead and make myself look even more crazy by saying I can hear the tone in writing as well. *sigh*

I'm imagining pointing and crying "ITWUM" is kinda a 6 thang... A strategy I should rethink I think when reading what FutureInProgress stated above... but until such a time I'll continue to throw myself in front of this train and that train...until they come to escort me away

Thinking of you Cellmold.

 

[Cellmold]

Cellmold, I feel very happy for this opportunity to interact with you and like all kinds of great things will happen today having started it off in this manner...

ITWUM man.

Yah, this is one of those things that is not all that currently cool to suggest about yourself - that you have a read on others. That you are hard to fool. That you can do the math... that you can stand at the trailhead and know the trek. That you can walk on water and people really appreciate all the money they save due to your unique wine-making abilities... It is essential really to include the "sometimes I'm wrong" disclaimer if you do.

I don't mind so much discussing my own abilities in the regard because I know I'm not doing anything special or magical...it is all very practical based on the sum total of my life's experiences...it wouldn't make sense for me not to know who is who sooner rather than later. My process though I shouldn't make mention of and expect to be taken seriously. What you describe seeing sounds very sane...similar to what they train FBI interrogators, etc. to be on the lookout for <-a fair amount of which is based on the same behaviors and actions that professional poker players track in their opponents.

I wait until I hear a hollow tone in a person voice prior to piecing together their "Oh, this ain't good" puzzle and yes, I'll go ahead and make myself look even more crazy by saying I can hear the tone in writing as well. *sigh*

I'm imagining pointing and crying "ITWUM" is kinda a 6 thang... A strategy I should rethink I think when reading what FutureInProgress stated above... but until such a time I'll continue to throw myself in front of this train and that train...until they come to escort me away

Thinking of you Cellmold.

Well, that sanity is just the parts I can rationalise. It's that (comparatively) linear J-style thinking & maybe the 6 stuff as well; if you've got a straight line you feel more secure knowing you've only got to yank in one direction.

But it catches me out when it turns out the world yanks in lots of different directions. But yeah I'm cautious about that reading, as is my nature.

PS: Coming back to this because sometimes I can be a bit slow. That 'hollow' tone you mentioned, is that to do with insincerity? Or rather a lack of a genuine nature?

PPS: Thanks for thinking of me.

 

[Tilt]

Well to be fair, she's good at picking up on BS but I am better at picking up on the rationalization behind the BS. NeFi vs. FeNi (in my estimation).

 

[Starry]

Well, that sanity is just the parts I can rationalise. It's that (comparatively) linear J-style thinking & maybe the 6 stuff as well; if you've got a straight line you feel more secure knowing you've only got to yank in one direction.

But it catches me out when it turns out the world yanks in lots of different directions. But yeah I'm cautious about that reading, as is my nature.

PS: Coming back to this because sometimes I can be a bit slow. That 'hollow' tone you mentioned, is that to do with insincerity? Or rather a lack of a genuine nature?

PPS: Thanks for thinking of me.

The hollow tone isn't connected to insincerity, deception, disingenuousness... <-Everyone then would have the hollow tone ha. No, honestly, I don't know what it is. Whoops, I should say I do know what you are talking about though...it is like all the things they measure on a polygraph...increased heart rate, pulse, etc. When someone is lying they often do have a sort of breathy, note-higher, 2-dimensional-forced sound to their voices. The hollow voice is just some system my unconscious created I suppose and it means the person is threatening in some way...they are not harmless...that's all I know.


Cellmold, do you ever imagine yourself in a long term relationship with an INTJ female? Tell me.

 

[Cellmold]

The hollow tone isn't connected to insincerity, deception, disingenuousness... <-Everyone then would have the hollow tone ha. No, honestly, I don't know what it is. Whoops, I should say I do know what you are talking about though...it is like all the things they measure on a polygraph...increased heart rate, pulse, etc. When someone is lying they often do have a sort of breathy, note-higher, 2-dimensional-forced sound to their voices. The hollow voice is just some system my unconscious created I suppose and it means the person is threatening in some way...they are not harmless...that's all I know.


Cellmold, do you ever imagine yourself in a long term relationship with an INTJ female? Tell me.

Ah I see, thanks for elaborating.

Well I'm a bit unsure of typology at the moment but I wouldn't have an issue with being in a long term relationship with a lady who identified as INTJ.

Hmm that's a bit of a non-answer. I think I might have to expand my position on Typology systems for a better explanation. Basically the point I'm at is that I think Jung may have been onto something but I'm not clear on what that 'something' is, I've only got his interpretation. However it can also be rather flimsy in how others have interpreted it (Isabel Briggs Myers & her mum for example) and it can be difficult not to be critical towards its limitations when heuristic observation & scientific enquiry have shown us the sheer variety and complexity of human behaviour. Especially since personality has been shown to change over time (though I doubt this is any final word on the debate).
On top of this is the added difficulty of understanding our brains and our striving, as a brain, to understand itself. Typology can look a bit too simplified by comparison, although just as one brick doesn't tell us all about a structure, simply analysing a collection of neurones in isolation doesn't necessarily tell us how it functions in it's larger relation to the rest of them.
Having said all that my natural inconsistency and often contradictory nature (or maybe it's only a paradox ) means I sometimes refer back to typological terms for lack of a convenient alternative, such as J-ness (though as an aside this can be correlated with conscientiousness).

So with that mess out of the way, I can say that given what I understand of INTJs in that system that I would probably really enjoy someone who has that inner conviction of internal vision, stable structural judgement and intensely personal morality.

If I didn't drive them mad with how I can be, that is. Being a bit awkward and neurotic makes it hard to gauge how much closeness and intimacy I really want, as this has also been my self-created obstacle to getting experience in that closeness in the first place.

Perhaps the simple answer should have been: yes.