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How to handle ENFP volatility/unpredictability

EG_j

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Or just young ones who are not ready to commit after two weeks... *shrug*

Well, I want to make something clear in case it was mistakable.
She was the one to address the question where we stand and where this was going, not me.
I didn't hold a pistol to her head and scream "LOVE ME 'TILL YOU DIE OR YOU'LL DIE NOW!".
I would have been perfectly okay with continuing like it went first and see what develops.

What type is her blabbermouth sister do you know? hmm...

haha I'm not making light of your situation in the least when I say that I still enjoyed this post.
Someday, you too may look back at this time in your life and perhaps have the same laugh as I do.
Don't ever let a blabbermouth or someone else's gossip stop you from going anywhere you please...head held high.
Just not this event.

Anyway, with you making the decision to move forward I don't know what more you will want to ask in this thread.
If you have more questions...by all means ask. I just didn't want to miss an opportunity to say that I hope you stay at this forum on a regular basis.

Her sister is an xNFP, too... Same same but different.

Probably. But I'm not yet over it (sorry, if that's somehow annoying :D) and actually I think it would be a pity if this was broken for ...no reason?
I'll give her some days of silence, get in touch with her again. And if she's repellent, I'll quit.
What do you mean by saying "just not this event"?
 

Starry

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Well, I want to make something clear in case it was mistakable.
She was the one to address the question where we stand and where this was going, not me.
I didn't hold a pistol to her head and scream "LOVE ME 'TILL YOU DIE OR YOU'LL DIE NOW!".
I would have been perfectly okay with continuing like it went first and see what develops.

^^I realize that this wasn't directed towards me...but I can't help but notice that what you wrote above seems like the complete opposite of what you have been saying all along. Almost like the roles of you and this ENFP were reversed or something. I'm not looking for an explanation from you...merely that you possibly consider this if you end up seeing what you wrote above as contradictory as well.



Her sister is an xNFP, too... Same same but different.

Probably. But I'm not yet over it (sorry, if that's somehow annoying :D) and actually I think it would be a pity if this was broken for ...no reason?
I'll give her some days of silence, get in touch with her again. And if she's repellent, I'll quit.
What do you mean by saying "just not this event"?

Sorry, I was under the impression that you were going to take the advice you were given in this thread and not be around this ENFP anymore. By saying 'just not this event'...I was referring to the fact I personally would not attend the housewarming party if I was doing what I had thought you were doing.
 

EG_j

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Little update:

After a week of her being very short with me and her statement that she's "not sure" whether she wants to meet me again (aka she doesn't want to), I finally reached the point to let it go and tell her I don't want to be the one to get the runaround. I know it's a little late, but nevermind.

I couldn't recognize her at all: At first she was incredibly sweet, intrigued and curious (even after the baking date) but at a moment's notice she became very indifferent and even cheeky.
So I deleted her number, too, because I don't want people behaving like that as a friend at all.

I know it's over and I'm not resentful or anything, but what bothers me is that it went to shit for no apparent reason.
Sure, I could have done better at the f...ing baking date, but she seemed to have closed herself to me over night without addressing anything to me.
It's just frustrating, and being delayed and ignored is actually the worst and most painful thing she could do.

She's probably too young.
Which is a problem for me because sometimes I really doubt whether there are single girls in my age that are mature enough for something real.

Anyway, I still wanted to thank you to give me insights into a young ENFP's mind.
It probably just wasn't meant to be. :(
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Little update:

After a week of her being very short with me and her statement that she's "not sure" whether she wants to meet me again (aka she doesn't want to), I finally reached the point to let it go and tell her I don't want to be the one to get the runaround. I know it's a little late, but nevermind.

I couldn't recognize her at all: At first she was incredibly sweet, intrigued and curious (even after the baking date) but at a moment's notice she became very indifferent and even cheeky.
So I deleted her number, too, because I don't want people behaving like that as a friend at all.

I know it's over and I'm not resentful or anything, but what bothers me is that it went to shit for no apparent reason.
Sure, I could have done better at the f...ing baking date, but she seemed to have closed herself to me over night without addressing anything to me.
It's just frustrating, and being delayed and ignored is actually the worst and most painful thing she could do.

She's probably too young.
Which is a problem for me because sometimes I really doubt whether there are single girls in my age that are mature enough for something real.

Anyway, I still wanted to thank you to give me insights into a young ENFP's mind.
It probably just wasn't meant to be. :(

I'm sorry to hear that you are hurt. That sucks and if you are in your twenties, dating is tough. Everyone is finding out a lot of things about themselves and at the expense of another, usually.

I don't like hearing you beat yourself up about the baking date. I think you came across as charming and thoughtful. Let's hope your next girlie will be more appreciative of those qualities. At least you know that this sort of behavior in the future will be a deal breaker for you.

:)
 

EG_j

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I'm sorry to hear that you are hurt. That sucks and if you are in your twenties, dating is tough. Everyone is finding out a lot of things about themselves and at the expense of another, usually.

I don't like hearing you beat yourself up about the baking date. I think you came across as charming and thoughtful. Let's hope your next girlie will be more appreciative of those qualities. At least you know that this sort of behavior in the future will be a deal breaker for you.

:)

Thank you. Well, I really am hurt, but actually right now I feel a little proud and almost relieved that I finally didn't let her play games further with me (That doesn't mean that it's what she wanted to do, but from my point of view it amounts to that).
That may seem strange, but if I'm in love or have found a potential partner I really like, especially if there were some caresses, the hope of turning it into something more always predominates the fear of annoying her or appearing needy (which is noticeable though).

What you wrote about dating in the twenties is probably right. Since dating was never easy for me, I'm used to this. :D
Lately I noticed becoming a little more extroverted and judging, which accomodates me with dating in general. I guess it's the next step in becoming an adult and I'm very glad I took it.
My earlier me would have been slipping between being very angry at her and the world in general and very whiny. Luckily, it is different this time.

Maybe sometimes I'm to harsh with myself, I guess that's the Ti-Si combo kicking in.
But on the other hand I know that I could have done better and want to learn something from this situation to avoid screwing up the next.
I don't just see my mistakes but her's, too - but since I can modify my own behaviour and cannot change her's, I have to draw conclusions regarding my own attitude.
What I also learned is that sometimes, disconnection for some while is vital. Personally, I still think it's a pity, but if it works... Screw it.
 

ceecee

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Thank you. Well, I really am hurt, but actually right now I feel a little proud and almost relieved that I finally didn't let her play games further with me (That doesn't mean that it's what she wanted to do, but from my point of view it amounts to that).
That may seem strange, but if I'm in love or have found a potential partner I really like, especially if there were some caresses, the hope of turning it into something more always predominates the fear of annoying her or appearing needy (which is noticeable though).

What you wrote about dating in the twenties is probably right. Since dating was never easy for me, I'm used to this. :D
Lately I noticed becoming a little more extroverted and judging, which accomodates me with dating in general. I guess it's the next step in becoming an adult and I'm very glad I took it.
My earlier me would have been slipping between being very angry at her and the world in general and very whiny. Luckily, it is different this time.

Maybe sometimes I'm to harsh with myself, I guess that's the Ti-Si combo kicking in.
But on the other hand I know that I could have done better and want to learn something from this situation to avoid screwing up the next.
I don't just see my mistakes but her's, too - but since I can modify my own behaviour and cannot change her's, I have to draw conclusions regarding my own attitude.
What I also learned is that sometimes, disconnection for some while is vital. Personally, I still think it's a pity, but if it works... Screw it.


This sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into a relationship with her or someone just like her. You feel that this experiences has matured you and caused you to grow and you'll be less susceptible to her games, her taking advantage of and using you and so on. Because of that and because you really really like the ENFP types, you'll go back to her or someone just like her.

There are people here in completely wrong and toxic relationships but they talk like they have no control over this attraction and no matter what, they would end up with the same kind of partner. They think that some kind of growth on their part will make them immune.
 

Star Atlas

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Thank you. Well, I really am hurt, but actually right now I feel a little proud and almost relieved that I finally didn't let her play games further with me (That doesn't mean that it's what she wanted to do, but from my point of view it amounts to that).
That may seem strange, but if I'm in love or have found a potential partner I really like, especially if there were some caresses, the hope of turning it into something more always predominates the fear of annoying her or appearing needy (which is noticeable though).

What you wrote about dating in the twenties is probably right. Since dating was never easy for me, I'm used to this. :D
Lately I noticed becoming a little more extroverted and judging, which accomodates me with dating in general. I guess it's the next step in becoming an adult and I'm very glad I took it.
My earlier me would have been slipping between being very angry at her and the world in general and very whiny. Luckily, it is different this time.

Maybe sometimes I'm to harsh with myself, I guess that's the Ti-Si combo kicking in.
But on the other hand I know that I could have done better and want to learn something from this situation to avoid screwing up the next.
I don't just see my mistakes but her's, too - but since I can modify my own behaviour and cannot change her's, I have to draw conclusions regarding my own attitude.
What I also learned is that sometimes, disconnection for some while is vital. Personally, I still think it's a pity, but if it works... Screw it.

Dating at this stage is supposed to be about some trial and error and therefore must require forgiveness on many fronts.

I am not sure that it is helpful to frame this situation in terms of:

But on the other hand I know that I could have done better and want to learn something from this situation to avoid screwing up the next.

Did you screw things up? That implies that this entire situation, including its outcome, rested solely on your shoulders. And that isn't a fair assessment for either party in a relationship. (Unless you are doing something clearly wrong like physical intimidation/abuse, verbal abuse, or just down right being a contrary self-centered ass.)

What helped me get through the learning curve of past relationships is understanding what was on me and just doing my best the next time. Any relationship is going to have a push-pull nature at its center as each person dances around where their place is in this new paradigm. And many relationships are going to fail during this stage simply because it was a situation that was untenable to one (or both) members. And that's ok. It doesn't mean someone screwed up... it's just the reality of how those people work or don't work.

I think you should be proud of your efforts. The next woman is going to be a different realm of possibilities for you to learn about and explore. It is helpful to bring with you what you learned about yourself from the last relationship, but not the framework of how she worked.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Dating at this stage is supposed to be about some trial and error and therefore must require forgiveness on many fronts.

I am not sure that it is helpful to frame this situation in terms of:



Did you screw things up? That implies that this entire situation, including its outcome, rested solely on your shoulders. And that isn't a fair assessment for either party in a relationship. (Unless you are doing something clearly wrong like physical intimidation/abuse, verbal abuse, or just down right being a contrary self-centered ass.)

What helped me get through the learning curve of past relationships is understanding what was on me and just doing my best the next time. Any relationship is going to have a push-pull nature at its center as each person dances around where their place is in this new paradigm. And many relationships are going to fail during this stage simply because it was a situation that was untenable to one (or both) members. And that's ok. It doesn't mean someone screwed up... it's just the reality of how those people work or don't work.

I think you should be proud of your efforts. The next woman is going to be a different realm of possibilities for you to learn about and explore. It is helpful to bring with you what you learned about yourself from the last relationship, but not the framework of how she worked.

:worthy:
 

Poki

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Little update:

After a week of her being very short with me and her statement that she's "not sure" whether she wants to meet me again (aka she doesn't want to), I finally reached the point to let it go and tell her I don't want to be the one to get the runaround. I know it's a little late, but nevermind.

I couldn't recognize her at all: At first she was incredibly sweet, intrigued and curious (even after the baking date) but at a moment's notice she became very indifferent and even cheeky.
So I deleted her number, too, because I don't want people behaving like that as a friend at all.

I know it's over and I'm not resentful or anything, but what bothers me is that it went to shit for no apparent reason.
Sure, I could have done better at the f...ing baking date, but she seemed to have closed herself to me over night without addressing anything to me.
It's just frustrating, and being delayed and ignored is actually the worst and most painful thing she could do.

She's probably too young.
Which is a problem for me because sometimes I really doubt whether there are single girls in my age that are mature enough for something real.

Anyway, I still wanted to thank you to give me insights into a young ENFP's mind.
It probably just wasn't meant to be. :(

Enfps can be very shallow as a method of dealing with life, avoidance, and numerous other reasons. The depth is awesome, but that shallow is something that will have to be broken down. Will never go away, but will become more balanced.
 

EG_j

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This sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into a relationship with her or someone just like her. You feel that this experiences has matured you and caused you to grow and you'll be less susceptible to her games, her taking advantage of and using you and so on. Because of that and because you really really like the ENFP types, you'll go back to her or someone just like her.

There are people here in completely wrong and toxic relationships but they talk like they have no control over this attraction and no matter what, they would end up with the same kind of partner. They think that some kind of growth on their part will make them immune.

Sure I like ENFPs, otherwise I wouldn't have pursued anything with her. NF types generally have a very strong attraction on me.
It's a pity that I haven't met an INFJ girl in my age yet, since I think they would probably be the best match for me.

So... What's your advice exactly? :huh:

Did you screw things up? That implies that this entire situation, including its outcome, rested solely on your shoulders. And that isn't a fair assessment for either party in a relationship. (Unless you are doing something clearly wrong like physical intimidation/abuse, verbal abuse, or just down right being a contrary self-centered ass.)

What helped me get through the learning curve of past relationships is understanding what was on me and just doing my best the next time. Any relationship is going to have a push-pull nature at its center as each person dances around where their place is in this new paradigm. And many relationships are going to fail during this stage simply because it was a situation that was untenable to one (or both) members. And that's ok. It doesn't mean someone screwed up... it's just the reality of how those people work or don't work.

I think you should be proud of your efforts. The next woman is going to be a different realm of possibilities for you to learn about and explore. It is helpful to bring with you what you learned about yourself from the last relationship, but not the framework of how she worked.

Thanks for this awesome contribution!
Okay, the right way to put it might be "we screwed up" instead of "I screwed up".
Maybe I just saw it that way because it doesn't seem to bother her at all.

This is actually what I meant. Analyzing what I did wrong/could have done better and move on.
Maybe I should also acknowledge and appreciate what I did right, too.

I really am proud of myself. Before, I would not have expected to make it that far with such a cute, cool and beautiful girl that she was/is.
But actually this is what makes it somehow frustrating, too.

Enfps can be very shallow as a method of dealing with life, avoidance, and numerous other reasons.
The depth is awesome, but that shallow is something that will have to be broken down. Will never go away, but will become more balanced.

Yep, I know exactly what you mean. May sound naive, but I really hoped and thought I could be the one to break this down and connect to her depth.

---

But in general I'm pretty fine right now, despite those circumstances.
I'm glad that I made the cut when it was necessary, something I never did as long as I saw a vague chance of getting it right.
 

Star Atlas

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Thanks for this awesome contribution!
Okay, the right way to put it might be "we screwed up" instead of "I screwed up".
Maybe I just saw it that way because it doesn't seem to bother her at all.

This is actually what I meant. Analyzing what I did wrong/could have done better and move on.
Maybe I should also acknowledge and appreciate what I did right, too.


I really am proud of myself. Before, I would not have expected to make it that far with such a cute, cool and beautiful girl that she was/is.
But actually this is what makes it somehow frustrating, too.

Bold: Taking this away from typology for a moment, that isn't terribly surprising. (And often is one of the most aggravating things about relationships that don't line up well.) No one likes being vulnerable and showing that one care(s/d) is being vulnerable. It is possible this didn't affect her at all. It is equally possible that this was very wounding to her. Sans speaking to her directly (and of course getting an accurate response), one cannot draw an accurate conclusion as to how she views things. The part that sucks is that we so rarely get satisfying closure on relationships. A good skill to learn (but so difficult to implement) is to find closure as best as you can on your own. Not the most immediately satisfying advice.

Red: I just have to point out that feeling the need to ask for advice in regarding someone else's volatility/unpredictability speaks to me that the odds of you "doing better" in some magical fashion are near nil. If we were making a graph your hyperbolic line would be crashing to zero pretty quickly. It doesn't matter what type is in that blank. Volatile is just never a good descriptor that is conducive to a positive relationship. Unpredictability if it's a "Wow, my SO is unpredictable! For my birthday they surprised me by flying my best friend out secretly whom I haven't seen in years!!" Not "I just left their apartment covered in the fur of 12 kinds of crazy and I am not even sure what my name is anymore."


Blue:
I am really glad to see this part here. I love it when I see people doing things that make them uncomfortable because those are the moments that are going to give you the best chance for personal growth. Another good thing I see in this is that you feel ready for this kind of step with someone, and you are acknowledging that. There is something to a person's vibe/aura when they do (or do not) want a relationship.

At the bolded blue (I am sorry if I am seemingly nitpicking your word choice here) I advise some caution to not idealize this girl in a manner in which you are placing a girl such as her above your reach. I guess I just point this out because I don't want you to link positive thoughts such as cool/beautiful with volatile/unpredictable.

Yep, I know exactly what you mean. May sound naive, but I really hoped and thought I could be the one to break this down and connect to her depth.

I see this as another trap, and one that I experienced for far too long.

I well understand the allure of such a challenge (with such a prize!) as I was reigning champion of such pursuits for a long time. Just be cautious with how you approach this, I think, is my best advice.

There is a difference between getting someone who is naturally reserved to unfold like an origami swan, and someone who, for whatever reason, has no desire to open up. I guess what I am meaning here is that intimacy shouldn't be a project. It should be a natural process. (Wherein each person can be a little ahead or behind each other, but usually within arms reach. Not twelve flights up behind steel spiked doors.)

But in general I'm pretty fine right now, despite those circumstances.
I'm glad that I made the cut when it was necessary, something I never did as long as I saw a vague chance of getting it right.

I am glad to see this as well.

You come off as very thoughtful and I think that will be a great asset in your future relationship(s).
 

EG_j

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Bold: Taking this away from typology for a moment, that isn't terribly surprising. (And often is one of the most aggravating things about relationships that don't line up well.) No one likes being vulnerable and showing that one care(s/d) is being vulnerable. It is possible this didn't affect her at all. It is equally possible that this was very wounding to her. Sans speaking to her directly (and of course getting an accurate response), one cannot draw an accurate conclusion as to how she views things. The part that sucks is that we so rarely get satisfying closure on relationships. A good skill to learn (but so difficult to implement) is to find closure as best as you can on your own. Not the most immediately satisfying advice.

That's right. Right now I'm really fine, but still don't know exactly how to handle the situation.
I'm thinking about talking to her again in two weeks or so to provide definite closure, on the other hand chances are that it won't bring me anything except slipslop from her.
But I somehow would like to know whether she's thinking "What a pity! I liked him" or "I'm glad I got rid of this guy", even if it in fact doesn't matter.
Still curious whether her sister adresses the topic though. :D

And I think about throwing myself out there on every girl that might be a "target". I know that this is nothing but overcompensation, but I'm under the impression of being in something like a Ne-Fe loop.
Is this a thing? Never heard about something like an auxiliary-inferior loop, at least not in my age. :huh:

Red: I just have to point out that feeling the need to ask for advice in regarding someone else's volatility/unpredictability speaks to me that the odds of you "doing better" in some magical fashion are near nil. If we were making a graph your hyperbolic line would be crashing to zero pretty quickly. It doesn't matter what type is in that blank.
Volatile is just never a good descriptor that is conducive to a positive relationship.

Can you explain this to me somehow? I think I don't get it.
This thread came into existence because my experience in the last two years is zero and I hadn't dealt with ENFP-ness before.
Despite the fact that it didn't work out, I think now I understand many things a little better. So I probably would formulate it different now.

Blue: I am really glad to see this part here.
I love it when I see people doing things that make them uncomfortable because those are the moments that are going to give you the best chance for personal growth.
Another good thing I see in this is that you feel ready for this kind of step with someone, and you are acknowledging that. There is something to a person's vibe/aura when they do (or do not) want a relationship.

Yes, that is something I was very afraid of. But now I see many things different (thank god).
But maybe this aura is what made her run away, I don't know. :D

At the bolded blue (I am sorry if I am seemingly nitpicking your word choice here) I advise some caution to not idealize this girl in a manner in which you are placing a girl such as her above your reach. I guess I just point this out because I don't want you to link positive thoughts such as cool/beautiful with volatile/unpredictable.

You're right here, and I don't! I made this mistake often enough a few years ago and now I know how stupid that was.
Back then I switched between placing those girls far above me and hating them. Very, very unhealthy.
But now I'm mature enough to see that she's cool and so on and why I liked her, but at the same time know that she's not out of my reach.
Actually our time (as short as it was) and her initial interest show me that she's in fact nowhere above me.
Meanwhile I think this didn't break because of my goofiness, but because of her situation in life (aka doesn't want to commit) and her fears to hurt me or get hurt herself.

I see this as another trap, and one that I experienced for far too long.
I well understand the allure of such a challenge (with such a prize!) as I was reigning champion of such pursuits for a long time. Just be cautious with how you approach this, I think, is my best advice.
There is a difference between getting someone who is naturally reserved to unfold like an origami swan, and someone who, for whatever reason, has no desire to open up.
I guess what I am meaning here is that intimacy shouldn't be a project. It should be a natural process. (Wherein each person can be a little ahead or behind each other, but usually within arms reach.
Not twelve flights up behind steel spiked doors.)

That's an interesting point of view and this is something I have to learn.
Just noticed I'm guilty of approaching relationships like projects. (Even if this was far worse a few years ago.)

I am glad to see this as well.
You come off as very thoughtful and I think that will be a great asset in your future relationship(s).

Thank you! I'm starting to see my strengths overriding my weaknesses/insecurities, which is nice.
And thank you for this response in general, I really appreciate it! :)
 

ChocolateMoose123

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.....
Back then I switched between placing those girls far above me and hating them. Very, very unhealthy.
But now I'm mature enough to see that she's cool and so on and why I liked her, but at the same time know that she's not out of my reach.
Actually our time (as short as it was) and her initial interest show me that she's in fact nowhere above me.
Meanwhile I think this didn't break because of my goofiness, but because of her situation in life (aka doesn't want to commit) and her fears to hurt me or get hurt herself.

You know, many people never even realize they make these connections when acceptance, rejection, hurt and projection come into a situation. The fact that you are aware of the dynamic, it says a lot.

Your brain is farther ahead of your experience level, so with more experience, and keeping what you know? I think you will no doubt be successful in life and love, eventually.
 

EG_j

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You know, many people never even realize they make these connections when acceptance, rejection, hurt and projection come into a situation. The fact that you are aware of the dynamic, it says a lot.

Your brain is farther ahead of your experience level, so with more experience, and keeping what you know? I think you will no doubt be successful in life and love, eventually.

Thanks, I think you're right.
Looking back my problem has always been a viscious circle: no experience -> rejection -> no confidence -> no experience
The point to break it is being more confident and dealing with rejection better and I think I'm on the right way there.

I guess most people in my age are the other way round though... More experience, but less deep thoughts.

Does any fellow introvert have some ideas for places/events that might be suitable for an INTP intending to get to know nice girls? :)
I mean something that is not too superficial and without bad music, apart from that I'm actually flexible.
Getting to know people over the internet is cool, too... But concerning romantic relationships it's just better to meet someone personally first.
And if an INFJ stops by here accidentally and offers a hint where to find them, I don't mind that, too. :D
 

EcK

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- - - Updated - - -

Personaly my solution is: scream back. They usually end up apologizing. Otherwise well, plenty of fishes and stuff.
 

EG_j

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Hi guys!

So, I just wanted to give a final update on this thread. :)

A few days ago, I met her again, just to discuss our points of view and why we both behaved how we behaved.
We talked a little and - like some of you assumed correctly - she had mixed feelings about me and giving her space and time would have been the best, but this doesn't matter now anyway.
She confirmed that she's now sure she doesn't have any feelings for me.

She's quite in a lot of stress now, since she began her studies, works and has to do all the household stuff that she's not used to do.
I, on the other hand, had simply nothing to do except working in the last time since I got my degree.
And because I really liked to spend time with her and saw no reason why I shouldn't pursue this.
She also mentioned that she even hasn't enough time to meet her best friend regularly, so... all in all it was bad timing I guess.

I said what I wanted to say, she apologized for her behaviour, we hugged and that's it now.
But I'm glad it ended well and who knows, maybe she'll become a friend of mine sometime later.

I learned a lot from this and even get myself out there now to get some experience.
Right now I'm already dating a cute girl that seems to be "futher" than the one from my OP and got to know a female INTP (yes, they do exist) who is really cool.

Anyway, I know I've thanked you quite often so far, but... Thank you all for your insights! You rock! ;)
 
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