ENTP INFP relationship....resumed after 30 years

[Hetaira]

Hello everyone. I am new here.

I have completely fallen in love only two times in my life...with two ENTP's. Something about the XNTP is magical, intense and overwhelming chemistry like no other. Part physical and part mental. I have deliberately been out of an old ENTP's life for over 30 years...because he was married. He loved me dearly many years ago..but I could not take the intimacy and "ran."

Now..I have moved back to my hometown...and he has come over twice and often texts me. He has shared everything with me...his current death spiral, his current drinking, his long and miserable marriage to an ESFJ (who I actually know and know how miserable they both are). He shared with me his two affairs (ESTP & ????).

My dilemma is this: I still love him...and since my divorce 8 years ago (ex-ISTP) have never remarried..though been engaged 3 times (ISTP, ISFP, ESFP). I was afraid if he ever showed up at my door single, I would leave whoever for this man (ENTP).

We have started becoming more intimate...but due to my strong FI, I have shared, I can't/won't share any man I sleep with. So..he knows the boundaries.

But he is still married. I am violating my own values/principles and it is killing me..but I feel there is more from him towards me than just a desire to get laid. He is attractive and could be with anyone, anytime. He stated he has been faithful for the last 5 years...and I believe him. He will share everything with me...and has never lied to me.

Our connection is the NE....he and I both can spend hours talking/listening about his ideas...current businesses he owns, etc. His goals, etc.

Your thoughts? Ideas?

 

[1487610420]

Have you considered that he comes to you because you enable him?

 

[Hetaira]

Enable him? Help me understand your meaning please.

Listen to him? Validate his ideas? Follow his line of reasoning and logic? Yes. Guilty.

Enable him by sleeping with him? I can't...goes against my personal values.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

That's a tough one. If you guys really have a thing for each other then I'd sit with him and try to figure out a way he can be fully available for you. As long as he's married and there's all this drama to boot its going to be part of your relationship and will probably hinder ever realizing its full potential. That will leave one or both of you unsatisfied in the end. If he doesn't seem willing to move on with his life and pursue something with you then you're wasting your time in the long run just for a little gratification in the present.
[MENTION=26035]Hetaira[/MENTION] , I'd like an INFP female's point of view:

So I just struck up a relationship with an INFP 4 months ago. So far so good (?) I mean I think it's good. I think I am an ENTP ( no other functions seem to describe me better). I'm early 30s and she's mid-late 20s in terms of age. So here's the lowdown. We met on a dating site and talked for about two weeks over text and a little bit over the phone before we decided to meet up for dinner. First date was great. Good Italian dinner and great conversation. I did most of the talking but she was a good listener and did ask interesting questions. She did do a bit of talking too but it was evident that she was more at ease listening and commenting responses. Eh , you know what. This could be rather long and I don't want to bore anyone but I'm genuinely confused about some stuff. I'll PM it to you if you want. Just let me know. Thanks.

 

[1487610420]

Enable him? Help me understand your meaning please.

Listen to him? Validate his ideas? Follow his line of reasoning and logic? Yes. Guilty.

Enable him by sleeping with him? I can't...goes against my personal values.

We have started becoming more intimate...but due to my strong FI, I have shared, I can't/won't share any man I sleep with. So..he knows the boundaries.

But he is still married. I am violating my own values/principles and it is killing me

How does that work? Looks like enabling to me.

 

[Hetaira]

No...enabling is doing things for others they are capable of doing for themselves....washing clothes, cooking meals, giving money...etc.

 

[1487610420]

 

[ceecee]

No...enabling is doing things for others they are capable of doing for themselves....washing clothes, cooking meals, giving money...etc.

And making excuses for them, justifying their behavior, becoming more intimate even though it violates your "boundaries" which it doesn't sound like you have much of when it comes to him. He's going to get you to justify sleeping with him eventually and he knows it. It's a matter of time.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Hi new person,

This will sound a bit harsh since we don't have time to ease into this, but I feel like you're either looking for a kick in the pants to stop seeing him or permission to let yourself go where you want to go. I'm afraid that a case can be made for both paths, but I sense you're leaning to wanting this man and trying to find some justification to go for that. So, I'm going to give you a little kick from the opposite direction.

But he is still married. I am violating my own values/principles and it is killing me..but I feel there is more from him towards me than just a desire to get laid. He is attractive and could be with anyone, anytime. He stated he has been faithful for the last 5 years...and I believe him. He will share everything with me...and has never lied to me.

Yes, you are violating your own principles. I don't care if he's the most entrancing man on the planet, having values means having values. He is still married, and just because you're not, doesn't mean you're not helping violate a bond of trust. Unless he doesn't want to be married anymore, in which case he'd be taking action to end that; so, is he? Until that time, you don't have any inviolable path to him. I hear the lies you're telling yourself in there, and the spin that you're putting on this to make it sound more palatable.

So what if you fell in love with him in the past? So what if he could be with anyone, anytime? So what if he's been faithful for the last 5 years? So what if he tells you everything? Every one of those statements is utterly irrelevant in the context of YOUR values.

I encourage you to not frame your actions with such irrelevant rationalizations.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

And making excuses for them, justifying their behavior, becoming more intimate even though it violates your "boundaries" which it doesn't sound like you have much of when it comes to him. He's going to get you to justify sleeping with him eventually and he knows it. It's a matter of time.

Yeah but you can't assume you know all the relevant factors. It sounds like the guy's marriage is an unhappy one and its only a matter of time before it's over. However, I do agree with you as far as the general principle goes. It's not wise to move forward with someone locked in a marriage even if its an unhappy one. He should end things in one relationship before starting another and [MENTION=26035]Hetaira[/MENTION] I would try to put the brakes on getting closer until he is actually available.

 

[Hetaira]

Yeah but you can't assume you know all the relevant factors. It sounds like the guy's marriage is an unhappy one and its only a matter of time before it's over. However, I do agree with you as far as the general principle goes. It's not wise to move forward with someone locked in a marriage even if its an unhappy one. He should end things in one relationship before starting another and [MENTION=26035]Hetaira[/MENTION] I would try to put the brakes on getting closer until he is actually available.

Agree with this 100%. He has known me as friends since we were 12. He knows my principles...and knows I would not/could not cross the sexual boundaries.

I am also dating two other men who are single...because in my mind/logic I know that he may never break ties with his wife. I have to go on with my life regardless of what he does/doesn't do.

Thank you all for your comments. I did need a "check" and have put the brakes on becoming any more than friends until he has moved out of his home.

Lastly, but not least...he has very traditional values regarding a wife. If I cheated with him sexually..he would never consider me "wife" material. Never.

 

[PeaceBaby]

You know there's this lie that women can be especially good at telling themselves. The lie is framed around the concept that you hold some special power over a man such that he would not fall back into past patterns if in a relationship with you. I sense you believe that about yourself, that you have power. I imagine that men are drawn to this sense of inner conviction you carry, but that you're not as consistent in the application of your values in relationships as you imagine yourself to be. Where do you draw the emotional boundary? The sexual one is moot.

If you are to live true to some sense of emotional propriety, you cannot set him up to be so dependent on a need to be with you that he would ultimately sacrifice anything to be with you. I think the best thing you could do is tell him your honest feelings, and cut bait. You're allowed to tell him you love him. Yet he must leave his current marriage because it's not right for him, not because he feels a pull towards you or the scent of a promise that you'll be his, now. Your patterns bear examination, here.

 

[Hetaira]

If you are to live true to some sense of emotional propriety, you cannot set him up to be so dependent on a need to be with you that he would ultimately sacrifice anything to be with you. I think the best thing you could do is tell him your honest feelings, and cut bait. You're allowed to tell him you love him. Yet he must leave his current marriage because it's not right for him, not because he feels a pull towards you or the scent of a promise that you'll be his, now. Your patterns bear examination, here.

Two important items to remember:
1. ENTP's usually do not "leave" until they have their "eyes" on another. I am pretty sure ENFJ's do the same. At least this has been my experience with them.
2. I wrote him a letter in June telling him the truth about my feelings and why I have never remarried (although have been engaged 3x in 8 years since divorce). Several weeks passed...and I did as you suggested.."cut bait." He messaged me and asked how I was doing...and could we meet for coffee? We did. Several times. He has also remarked on more than one occasion that his wife (ESFJ) is not interested in his business (entrepreneur and owns 3 companies) and asks him to "talk" about his day, etc. But when he does she starts bringing up random questions...like did he feed the dog? etc. He said he sees red when this happens. He said her main topic of conversation is who wore what, what she ate and the weather. Pretty mind numbing to me as well.

I started, ran and sold my own company...I "get" his business strategies. Although I am an INFP, I can be very business savvy.

I have seen his emotional affect increase in the last 6 months. He is less bitter, less angry and said he is drinking less. I feel that he enjoys our mental sparring more than anything.

Because I love him so much...I am okay if he never leaves his wife...or if he does, marries another. True love is doing what is best for the other person...not handcuffing them to my shirt tail.

 

[Hawthorne]

I don't understand. Which do you value more: not being an accessory to infidelity or the rush of romance?

If it's the first, then accept the possibility that he might lose interest but stand by your word and stop seeing him until he begins the separation process. If it's the second then accept your likely permanent place as the "other woman" and enjoy the affair while it lasts.

 

[Hetaira]

I don't understand. Which do you value more: not being an accessory to infidelity or the rush of romance?

If it's the first, then accept the possibility that he might lose interest but stand by your word and stop seeing him until he begins the separation process. If it's the second then accept your likely permanent place as the "other woman" and enjoy the affair while it lasts.

How I love the ENTP mind... I let him pursue. He never fails to contact me. Several weeks may go by, but sure enough, there will be a call or message to stay in contact and ask when he can see me again. I am willing to be a friend over coffee at my home. We have stayed in contact for many years via telephone...but just not in the same county/proximity until this past May. He seems relieved I have moved back home and often asks what he can do around my house for handy man stuff. He is very respectful of my boundaries. He has said he understands...and concurs that this is the best course of action to take for now.

I asked him last time, what could I do to help him do better in his business and family life. He looked at me and said "This...what you are giving me now helps me to keep going."

Not sure what that meant...but feeling that he enjoys being accepted/appreciated and validated/listened to.

Your thoughts?

 

[PeaceBaby]

Because I love him so much...I am okay if he never leaves his wife...or if he does, marries another. True love is doing what is best for the other person...not handcuffing them to my shirt tail.

Wow, what a sacrifice you're making ... so it's ok with you that's he's cheating emotionally?

 

[Hetaira]

Wow, what a sacrifice you're making ... so it's ok with you that's he's cheating emotionally?

Hell yeah! I am an older INFP (age 50). I have learned to not have as rigidly set values as I did when I was younger and I have learned through the years what true love is. It is not selfish.

I can totally live with myself to cheat with him on an emotional/mental level.

And yes...it is okay with me if he cheats with me on an emotional level.

When we dated many years before...he was very faithful to me: mental/emotional and physical.

I just broke and ran when he tried to get too close. I have made amends for my foolishness.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Hell yeah! I am an older INFP (age 50). I have learned to not have as rigidly set values as I did when I was younger and I have learned through the years what true love is. It is not selfish.

I can totally live with myself to cheat with him on an emotional/mental level.

Why have any "boundaries" at all then? True hypocrisy.

I share your vintage, so make no assumptions about where I'm coming from.

 

[Hetaira]

Well, hello fellow vintage INFP. ; )

True hypocrisy? Values: are they black and white or shades of grey?

 

[PeaceBaby]

Well, hello fellow vintage INFP. ; )

True hypocrisy? Values: are they black and white or shades of grey?

You tell me. You're the one who framed yourself as having values in the first place.