User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 45

  1. #21
    Suave y Fuerte BadOctopus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    As an INTJ, I can make my own working definition of objective; but I'd be interested in hearing your definition as applied to her.
    Hint: I think that differing definitions of 'objective' lead to conflicts between the INTJ and several other types.
    When I say objective, I mean able to analyze things rationally and impartially, taking all factors into consideration without letting personal feelings get in the way. My sister can't do this. Like literally can't. I think her Introverted Feeling is so over-developed, it drowns out her Extraverted Sensing. As a result, she is unable, or unwilling, to consider any viewpoint or opinion which differs from her own.

  2. #22
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Nice point about Nardi -- can you confirm, you are speaking of his studies where he wired up the heads of volunteers for EEGs and asked them to do various activities (the source of the famous INFP "Christmas tree" pattern and the INTJ "whole brain lights up in a single color indicative of expertise in an area")?

    Second, for the purposes of the discussion, please differentiate between "brain functions" and "thought patterns" ? (Holds out plate like Oliver Twist "Sir, may I have more please?")
    Yes, that question is non humorous.
    On the eeg studies -the neuroscience of personality - yes.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  3. #23
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    When I say objective, I mean able to analyze things rationally and impartially, taking all factors into consideration without letting personal feelings get in the way. My sister can't do this. Like literally can't. I think her Introverted Feeling is so over-developed, it drowns out her Extraverted Sensing. As a result, she is unable, or unwilling, to consider any viewpoint or opinion which differs from her own.
    Good, that's the right answer. /INTJ high-five>

    Way to go, cuz.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  4. #24
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,559

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    As an INTJ, I can make my own working definition of objective; but I'd be interested in hearing your definition as applied to her.
    Hint: I think that differing definitions of 'objective' lead to conflicts between the INTJ and several other types.
    Are you suggesting that we cannot come up with a definition of objective that is, well, objective?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #25
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Are you suggesting that we cannot come up with a definition of objective that is, well, objective?
    No -- it's that it depends if one is anchoring on physical facts, data, conditions (Te) or on social mores and strictures (Fe).

    It's true that no amount of wishful thinking will abrogate the law of gravity; but it's also true that merely quoting numbers and logic at people won't overcome mass social trends. People (in groups) can be just as rigid as girders.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  6. #26
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    4,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by great_bay View Post
    How can't you not understand each other if you guys have the same function and both of you are introverted?
    They might have the same functions, but they don't mean the same thing in their positions.

    INTJ: with their positions explained

    Dominate, 1st) Ni
    Auxiliary, 2nd) Te
    Tertiary, 3rd) Fi
    Inferior, 4th) Se

    ISFP: Fi Se Ni Te (you get the point)
    ESFP: Se Fi Te Ni

    Applying it to the INTJ

    Auxiliary supports the dominant function, e.g. Te supports Ni
    Fi (is mentioned to appear child like), however Fi supports Se. (not the other way around)

    Ni and Te is conscience, Se(4th) Fi(3rd), I changed the order on purpose, to show the shadow (notice it is ESFP, not ISFP). Also referred to as the unconscious, or the part of your personality that you despise (when younger). Jung said, that to become enlightened, one has to accept that side of their personality. Maturity can help, but a great deal of people never reaches it. His focus was to get people to accept that side, or become conscience and grow, with maturity.

    Btw Jung did write the INTJ as Ni Te Se Fe... (I could be wrong here but I think Meyers changed it with decades of observation data) Jung also implied that there are more than the 16 types because of the function orders are different.

    I'm only answering, the 4 functions that seems similar at first.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It is an interesting point. I recall Dario Nardi saying that when he did testing of brain patterns on INTJs and ISFPs, as they got older, it was hard to tell the difference between the two of them. They started looking alike.
    I would guess, that if both were healthy then it could appear similar, even more so with INTJ and ESFP (just guessing)

  7. #27
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    7,661

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Nice point about Nardi -- can you confirm, you are speaking of his studies where he wired up the heads of volunteers for EEGs and asked them to do various activities (the source of the famous INFP "Christmas tree" pattern and the INTJ "whole brain lights up in a single color indicative of expertise in an area")?

    Second, for the purposes of the discussion, please differentiate between "brain functions" and "thought patterns" ? (Holds out plate like Oliver Twist "Sir, may I have more please?")
    Yes, that question is non humorous.
    Yes, that's what I was referring to.

    Why would I differentiate between those two phrases? That's not the point my post was making. The distinction is between what the EEG showed (physical patterns not very deep into the brain) vs a whole psychology.

    Also, if the types became so similar in terms of personality, why would they still test as markedly different types and identify with different type descriptions? IMO, the ego is more about a whole mindset than specific brain functions. Im not saying they arent connected, and Nardi seems to be exploring how. But Jung wasnt describing brain functions, and that is not what the types are describing.

    This is why skillset is not necessarily indicative of type, but why someone would choose to attain a skill might be.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #28
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Yes, that's what I was referring to.

    Why would I differentiate between those two phrases? That's not the point my post was making. The distinction is between what the EEG showed (physical patterns not very deep into the brain) vs a whole psychology.

    Also, if the types became so similar in terms of personality, why would they still test as markedly different types and identify with different type descriptions? IMO, the ego is more about a whole mindset than specific brain functions. Im not saying they arent connected, and Nardi seems to be exploring how. But Jung wasnt describing brain functions, and that is not what the types are describing.

    This is why skillset is not necessarily indicative of type, but why someone would choose to attain a skill might be.
    I must need more sleep. I actually had to read that twice before it made sense: "brain functions" for your purposes meant "EEG" and "thought patterns" meant "ways of framing things, habitual *outlook*" ... the point at which the confusion occurred, was in the word "patterns" in "thought patterns" ... I first took that as "what pattern" showed up on Dardi's EEG (for example, INFP Christmas tree, or INTJ whole-brain-light-blue).

    Carry on.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  9. #29
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    SEI
    Posts
    2,399

    Default

    I'm certain I've talked about it in the past on this forum, but I've had a very fruitful relationship with an INTJ. We connected on our views and tastes. We did not connect on our wants - I wanted children one day, he did not. I always felt as though I had some of the most interesting and thoughtful conversations with him. I enjoyed hearing how he processed things. He states he found my emotional intelligence attractive. We also had a very similar sense of humor and I think we both felt we could be absolutely ridiculous around one another. Our romance didn't last (like I said, he had no desire for family so I broke it off), but we've maintained great friends. I consider him one of my best friends.

    I've begun dating another INTJ. We both seem to be very attracted, but this one is less forthcoming or emotionally expressive. It's new, so I'm hoping to get the chance to see that side of him over time. Due to my feeling he is holding back, I've found I am unable to fully be myself around him. And I do worry this could become a hindrance to a blossoming relationship.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Ok well, I guess I'll explain that. The thing is that first girlfriend and I connected via email a few years ago and for some reason it caused me to go into an episode of depression for 8 - 10 months. I was literally staring at walls. It was something about reliving a past trauma, unresolved grief, etc. I have never experienced depression before so it threw me for a loop. It felt like getting hit by a truck. I disappeared from here for several months when it happened. I recall it was when Invisible Jim got banned. I missed that whole thing. No matter how hard I tried to understand and analyze my feelings, it was impossible to figure out. None of it made any logical sense. I guess emotions are truly not logical.

    I think that sometimes people feel INTJs are hard asses and don't have feelings but you know I believe that we're actually quite vulnerable to getting hurt in the intimate relationship realm, sometimes with lasting effects, and that we may be especially vulnerable when we're young.
    The funny thing with emotions is that it does follow logic, but its not objective, its subjective. Possibly an issue with Te objective logic applied to Fi subjective feelings. When dealing with subjective feelings you have to start with feelings for a person and build the logic on top of that as opposed to starting with data and working towards feelings.
    Im out, its been fun
    Likes IndyGhost liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. INTJ and INFJ Relationships
    By highlander in forum Intertype Relations
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 09-13-2017, 08:57 PM
  2. [INTJ] INTJ and INTP Relationship
    By Jetta in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-19-2017, 02:50 PM
  3. INTJ and INFP Relationships
    By highlander in forum Intertype Relations
    Replies: 155
    Last Post: 01-16-2017, 04:29 AM
  4. INTP and ISFP Relationships
    By highlander in forum Intertype Relations
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-14-2015, 01:23 PM
  5. [MBTItm] intp and isfp relationships
    By passingby in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 03-01-2014, 12:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO