[MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION]I told you I had a lot to say. I didn't exaggerate
Here it is.
Any ISTJs on the forum? [MENTION=4644]Habba[/MENTION]? I'd love to hear your input.
​​​What do you think about relationships between INFJs and ISTJs? The focus of this is really on romantic relationships but it also makes sense to discuss your experience in situations where these two types interact in a significant way – such as friendship, at work, etc.
Well, for starters, INFJs and ISTJs have 2 preference similarities and 2 differences. So, does that give them 50/50 chance? (just kidding. I know it's way more complicated than that.)
Let me preference the rest of my thoughts by saying that I AM in a relationship with an ISTJ.
What are the joys and positive aspects of these relationships? Why are they attracted to each other?
If I had known anything about MBTI when I met him, I probably wouldn't have interested in him, but I was a naïve idealist with stars in her eyes and he was this dark-haired, quiet guy that I met in a class. The problem with INFJs is that we imagine...a lot and some of the stuff we imagine, isn't quite the way things really are, so yes, I was very idealistic and I had him "being this guy" in my mind. And "this guy" was not really him at all.
Whenever he spoke, I was impressed with his intelligence and knowledge, with the way he was armed with facts and statistics. He would wear these vintage T-shirts of old music groups like Steve Miller Band, Kizz, ACDC, ZZ Top, etc. and he always wore jeans. He sort of looked like Keanu Reeves back in his Matrix days, but in more casual clothing, because we live in rural Appalachia and good old farm boys could care less about what's in fashion in the metropolitan areas of the world. Because I was so impressed with his intelligence, when he asked me out, I said yes. He turned out to NOT be the kind of person I thought he was, [I mean yes, he was smart, but all the other "ideas" I had about him were wrong] but that didn't seem like a fair reason to just break up, so I gave him a chance and learned to appreciate the kind of person that he actually was. Once he asked me why I decided to go out with him. I told him, "Your brain." And I guess that's the honest truth. He was the smartest guy I knew, so he got the girl
Compared to the jock-types and rednecks that I usually encounter in my neck of the woods, he is an Einstein.
When I asked him why he was initially interested in me he said, "Because you're pretty." Then he added, "And you're smart. You're friendly. You're easy-going and you didn't make fun of me for my comic book collection. Instead, you read them. A pretty girl who thought comic books were cool was my dream." He comes from a very judgmental family. When I found out his deepest, darkest secrets, I passed absolutely no judgment on him.
We have some pretty great conversations about just about everything you can imagine. He is full of theories and has the patience to listen to at least most of mine. We both require quiet time. We both dislike chaos. He is strong in my weakest areas and I am strong in his. We both realize where we are strong and where we are weak and so we work together to "take care of each other" in those areas.
We are both introverts and we both respect and understand the need for alone time. We both enjoy a quiet evening at home and while he always wants to "do something together" I have gotten him to the point of understanding that I need at least an hour or so to myself, just to piddle and think. He's usually bursting with thoughts to talk about, stuff he's been dying to tell me all day, but he now understands that until I've had wind-down time, I'm not going to hear them. So, when I come home in the evenings, we have a quiet time, then we chatter and interrupt each other and all that good stuff. We like to watch TV and read. On my days off he understands that I need time to go out in the yard and smack the dummy. When I'm writing he understands that I need no interruptions but occasionally, he does anyway. Still, that's not SO bad.
He thinks I'm a creative and intelligent and tells me that often. He appreciates how hard I work everyday and how committed I am to whatever I'm doing and often tells me to slow down so that I don't burn out. I appreciate that he is dependable, honest and a genuinely good person. He is not always "nice" or "polite." He can be rude, abrupt and curt at times BUT at least I know he's for real. He's not hiding anything or scheming. He 's not flashy or showy. He is just who he is and I like that.
He is concerned about everyday living. He notices when the dishes need washing, the floor needs sweeping, the bills need paying, the yard needs mowing, etc. He is quick to tell me if my clothes look good or not or if he thinks a business venture is good or not.
He tells me often that he thinks I'm so unselfish and that he thinks I'm a "good" person. He considers me generous and friendly. He talks about the fact that no matter where I go, people like me. I almost always have a few people gathering around me, even when I try to be inconspicuous. He thinks that he has to "protect" me from all the people that want to drain my energy. Sometimes, he comes across as prickly and fearful and people will say, "How can you stay with him?" But he's a good guy and I KNOW that he is prickly and snippy and fastidious because he fears being alone. It's not the kind of thing he would ever admit openly, but he does. He likes that I don't force him to show his emotions. I don't hound him about what he feels, instead I ask him, "What do you think? What's your opinion?" I don't have to ask him how he feels. All I have to do is watch him and just like my INTJ friend, sooner or later, I'll see it. Fi always shows up. In an ISTJ, or at least in the one I live with, it may show up as a verbal obsession over something. He won't stop talking about it which means he's nervous or scared or anxious.
The thing I like most about him, about all ISTJs that I know, actually, is that he is truly honest with me. He is mostly logical and has a lot of common sense.
We are both planners. When we travel, we don't simply rely on a GPS, we use a map. We mark the trail. We pack snacks. We talk about how far into the trip before we stop for a drink and about where we'd like to eat in advance of eating there. We literally talk about what we're planning on doing every day. I know that would drive some people nuts, but it works for us. Maybe it's because we're both Js? Sometimes, I think he gets a little "too" carried away, but for the most part, it's a good aspect of our relationship.
Neither one of us like to entertain in our home. It's our "secret" place and we like to keep it that way. I wouldn't say that our house is supper neat, but it's lived in and comfortable.
Oh, and one more thing. I think that maybe Ne in its inferior place makes for the quirkiest sense of humor. I like quirky.
- How compatible do you think these two types are in general?
I think they are somewhat compatible, but it takes getting to know one another and it takes some trial and error.
When it’s not working – What are the challenges when two people of this type are in a relationship?
- What are some of the communication challenges they can have?
- What are the biggest frustrations between these two types?
- How can they take each other for granted?
- What happens with things “go wrong†between these two types?
In some ways we speak entirely different languages. He drives me nuts talking about the neighbor's new vehicle and the weather and how tall the grass is, etc. I mean every minute piece of sensory information can become a topic of conversation for him. I have fantasized about choking him a few times because the conversation bored me to the point of tears, but then I looked at him and realized that he was attempted to "communicate" with me, and had compassion on him. haha. In all honesty, sometimes, I completely tune him out, but it's not on purpose. My mind just goes some other place. He often wants to talk about the everyday mundane things and I want to talk about the "big picture" type of stuff. We sometimes struggle to meet in the middle, but we both try and since we know we're different, we cut each other some slack. Sometimes, he tells me I'm crazy to which I will reply, "I'm not crazy. I'm just not you." He often wants to tell me that I've done something wrong, but the truth is that it isn't wrong at all, it's just different than how he would do it, so I will say, "It's wrong to you, but I'm not you."
Another source of conflict is that he often says what he thinks without thinking it through before he says it. And, I'm no better because then I get mad and won't talk to him, at least not until I cool down. I will tell him, "Don't force me to talk right now because I'm mad and I can't talk when I'm mad." He has learned that when I'm mad, he has to back off and let me walk it off or just get outside. Doing something physical and private helps me work through things. When I come back he has had time to think about what he said and I've had time to formulate what I was trying to get him to understand and to put it into words that will make sense to him. He doesn't always understand where I'm coming from and even admits that my mind is a strange place.
Oh, another source of conflict is that ISTJs often tend to be control freaks and INFJs detest being controlled. A few times he has said things like, "You're not going there." And I just look at him sort of cock-eyed and say, "Watch me." Or "Just try and stop me."
And an issue that I have had to work on is correcting him in front of people. I have really embarrassed him that way a few times and I was sorry I did it. I didn't mean to. It just slipped out before I realized I was doing it. So, I've had to make a conscious effort.
Advice for couples – What recommendations do you have?
- What things should each type do to facilitate better communication?
- What advice do you have for each of the two types?
- If you are an ISTJ, what advice do you have for the INFJs?
- If you are an INFJ, what advice do you have for the ISTJs?
I think that if you are an INFJ it's important to realize that the ISTJ person in your life values honesty, hard-work, dedication and loyalty that he or she has a terrible fear of betrayal and battles insecurities that they will never talk about with others. I think it's important NOT to force them to talk about their feelings, especially in front of others, but let them discuss things in their own ways. They will express them in their own time and fashion.
ISTJs realize that you can't pry inside an INFJ's mind. Don't force them to talk about their inner most thoughts, don't sneak and read their journals [mine does this because he thinks I'm "hiding" stuff]. Realize that the there will ALWAYS be something hidden about an INFJ. It's not on purpose. It's just a part of who they are. Ni can't be physically manifested as easily as Si so there is always that element of the mysterious. Let them have it.
INFJs realize that your ISTJ may NEVER understand where you're coming from, but if he or she truly cares about you and is willing to be okay with you being friends with other intuitives and talk to them, then it's okay. The need is still met.
Both need to understand that no other person, regardless of type, can ever complete you or make you happy. Happiness is each person's own responsibility. I'm not responsible for my ISTJ's happiness and he's not responsible for mine, but we are responsible to love, forgive and encourage one another. We don't have to see everything the same or even speak the same psychological language to get along. I learned long ago that no mere person could ever complete me or bring me the peace I seek. That can only come from me and the choices I make.
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