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Thread: INTJ and INFP Relationships

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    There's nothing wrong with a mentor or receiving help in self-growth, but many don't want that dynamic with a romantic partner.

    Also, instead of "dualizing" you, it can make you simply rely on someone else so much for your blindspot that you never bother to grow in that area.
    I understand that argument but I don't think duality works that way. Duals know how to criticize you at your weak spots. It doesn't stifle growth but it promotes it, unless they are assholes but why would you be with someone who is an asshole? That's not type specific. The thing about the dual is that they won't just let you be. They are competent at what you suck at, so they will always naturally point out when you err. It comes natural for them to do that. Duals don't coddle. That's why duality is described as often having quite a stormy initial phase because it takes time for partners to adapt and tease out the kinks between them. It's only after it settles down that the duals really begin to see and appreciate what they got to offer one and another and, speaking from a personal perspective, that psychological fulfillment is just par none. The more you are with each other, the more you feel like you cannot be without them. They psychologically complete you.

    Unless you have been in a close relationship with a dual, I think it will be extremely difficult to understand this, tbh. I am not going to say duality solves world problems but I do think people on the internet tend to be more skeptical of duality than it's actually warranted, and it's of course easy to be skeptical towards something one has yet to experience. Duality is one of those soul mate things. If you ever engage a dual, you will know what I mean. Until then, there's no way I can describe the experience to an outsider and they will actually get it. It just feels very deeply psychologically fulfilling in how you complement each other and how it allows you to grow as a person. I've never been in a relationship with someone else that has promoted so much personal growth as duality.

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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array Patrick's Avatar
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    I'm an INFP man who's been married to an INTJ woman for twenty-eight years. We're both quite certain of our types, having done a lot of testing and reading and reflecting and discussing.

    What's it like? Well, great in some ways but difficult in others--like most relationships, I would imagine. I'm no expert, though, as I have few, if any, other relationships to compare it to.

    Yes, we're both Responders (an interaction-style term), and that can be a big problem. Neither of us wants to take the initiative, so we wait for each other, and long periods of time go by without anything ever happening. One of us has to go "out of character" and force an issue before action can take place.

    She's got the Directing style (another interaction-style term), so she ends up being the one to break down and take the initiative most of the time. But she resents it because she believes in traditional gender roles: I'm the guy, so I ought to be the one to make the first move. Unfortunately, I often just can't do it. Worse, I sometimes react negatively to her initiating: her Directing style sounds bossy to me, and I resent it, wishing she'd take a softer approach.

    The Thinking-vs-Feeling difference is another big factor. She regularly accuses me of not listening or not being able to follow instructions, and I regularly accuse her of being inconsiderate or uncooperative. When we were first married, I believed that rational T part of her was just a sham and that underneath she was of course a warm F-type person. I think I spent a few years expecting and assuming that she'd change (i.e., become more like me); and then I read Keirsey's book Please Understand Me II and learned that it wasn't gonna happen.

    Finding things in common is always a challenge, and I think we've all but given up. She wants to learn something new all the time, while I'm more content with familiar routines. She's geekier than I am: she likes light science-fiction movies (even Marvel comics movies and such), while I'd normally prefer heavier drama (something she usually can't stand). But I'm not much into movies anyway, so I go along with her. If we go to see the X-Men or something, everybody probably assumes she's just going along with me, but actually it's the other way around. I watched the whole Babylon Five TV series only because she started watching it, and I wanted to sit with her. I had to go see Titanic by myself, though; she just wasn't interested. Same with Saving Private Ryan--but that's more understandable, as it's a guy movie.

    We're both practically reclusive, though. Over the years we've gotten to where we kinda live separate lives in the same house, checking in with other frequently during the day. Right now, for instance, I'm upstairs in my den, typing this, and she's downstairs on the couch, reading a fantasy/sci-fi novel on her computer. But a couple hours ago we were out on the deck, grilling hamburgers and steaks together.

    As to the Socionics "Benefit" relationship, that kinda makes sense, I guess, but it's a mostly unconscious thing. I certainly was never aware of seeking someone strong in Te. In fact, gender bias made me kind of assume all females were strong in F, not T. Yet, I was vaguely aware of being incompetent when it came to getting practical things done in the real world, so in the back of my mind I knew it'd be wonderful to have someone to help me in that area.

    Sadly, I've also been painfully aware that I absolutely suck at most Se-related things (Se is my "point of least resistance" in Socionics). I've practically lived my whole life out of my body, so to speak. Hence, there's no way i can be of much use to my wife as far as providing an Se "boost." She dearly wishes for that, and maybe she'd have been happier with an ESTP or ESFP--but alas, she's stuck with me. (Similarly, I sometimes wish for a relationship with someone more emotional--maybe someone with strong Fe; and I once nearly crossed a line with a female friend who was perhaps an ENFJ.)

    On the plus side, we love each other. Also we're in sync spiritually and politically; and we're both rather wary of the world, so we protect each other against life's bumps and stings. We get along well enough, but we still don't get each other half the time. But being puzzled about each other is part of what keeps things interesting.
    "Some would say that extended meaningful conversation is a thing of the past. But they'd say it more quickly." (Tom Morris)
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  3. #33
    にゃん Array runvardh's Avatar
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    Interesting interaction set up there, Patrick; I'm, apparently, more of a Director and self-motivating when the boardom level gets too high. I also tend towards a lower threshold for BS, which affects my values and can make my relationships with other Fs more difficult. I still wonder if I might be too sensitive for the T girls; but unfortunately I don't run across them enough to be sure (they've never been able to scare me here).

    I guess that goes to show how different we can all be - even within type.
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  4. #34
    にゃん Array runvardh's Avatar
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    Sorry to drag this out of the deep...

    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    I could see possible problems arising from the stubbornness of the INTJ going up against the tendency of some INFPs to be indecisive. I've noticed that some INFPs (and Perceivers in general) tend to avoid conflict, which can be frustrating to Judging types. But then again, some Judgers love to be the ones to make all the decisions. It probably would depend on the couple.

    I imagine both parties would have to be pretty persistent and dedicated, but it could work.
    Persistent and dedicated, I could drink to that. I've dated a few women whom have not appreciated my indecisiveness; and, despite being a little rough around the edges for an INFP, I do still have my moments of being conflict adverse. Both tend to be solved, in my case, by knowing what I want more and using what I know of her to predict our discussions and have a decision or position ready - it's just arguing it that can be a little difficult or rambling now. ^_^;;
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Array Patrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    I guess that goes to show how different we can all be - even within type.
    Just checking here, but am I using type codes correctly in this forum? In my post above, I was using INFP and INTJ to refer to M-B types. But I notice your Socionics type is IEI ... and this form is called Intertype Relations, which has a Socionics ring to it, so ... are we talking about INFPs and INFJs here, or INFps and INTjs?
    "Some would say that extended meaningful conversation is a thing of the past. But they'd say it more quickly." (Tom Morris)

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array YUI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    I'm an INFP man who's been married to an INTJ woman for twenty-eight years. We're both quite certain of our types, having done a lot of testing and reading and reflecting and discussing. [...snipped]
    Great post. As an INFP male, I've wondered what an INTJ partner would be like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    [...]Sadly, I've also been painfully aware that I absolutely suck at most Se-related things (Se is my "point of least resistance" in Socionics). I've practically lived my whole life out of my body, so to speak. Hence, there's no way i can be of much use to my wife as far as providing an Se "boost." She dearly wishes for that, and maybe she'd have been happier with an ESTP or ESFP--but alas, she's stuck with me. (Similarly, I sometimes wish for a relationship with someone more emotional--maybe someone with strong Fe; and I once nearly crossed a line with a female friend who was perhaps an ENFJ.)[...]
    Just a suggestion: Do something that works Si for you and Se for your wife. Try couples dancing--like Swing Dancing. As the Follower, your wife will get a good workout of her Se, enjoying the kinetics of the dance. Meantime, as the Leader you yourself will get a good workout for your Tertiary Si and your Inferior Te. Si will help you learn footwork patterns, and Te will help you arrange dance steps into fun, memorable routines as you progress.

    I'm an INFP male and I do lots of couples dancing: Ballroom, Latin, Swing, pretty much everything. Like I say, it's a good Si and Te workout for me. And as I get older, I find a lot of enjoyment in sharpening those functions. I take a lot of pride in getting those functions up and running and being a good Leader. See my post here: Dancing!!!

    And I see INFPs and INTJs on the dance floor, so I'm definitely not the only one out there.

    I recommend Swing because pretty much every mid-size town and up will have some Swing dancing somewhere. Also it attracts an older crowd than something like Salsa. You can find East Coast Swing in urban areas and Country Swing in rural areas. West Coast Swing is also doable, but sometimes that gets a younger crowd.

    Any couples dance is good. But Swing is fast and spinning (good for Se) and has lots of programmed steps to learn (good for Si); you just string them together into longer routines (Te planning).
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Array YUI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Just checking here, but am I using type codes correctly in this forum? In my post above, I was using INFP and INTJ to refer to M-B types. But I notice your Socionics type is IEI ... and this form is called Intertype Relations, which has a Socionics ring to it, so ... are we talking about INFPs and INFJs here, or INFps and INTjs?
    You're in the right place. This particular forum is for M-B INFPs and INTJs.
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  8. #38
    my floof is luxury Array Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Sorry to drag this out of the deep...



    Persistent and dedicated, I could drink to that. I've dated a few women whom have not appreciated my indecisiveness; and, despite being a little rough around the edges for an INFP, I do still have my moments of being conflict adverse. Both tend to be solved, in my case, by knowing what I want more and using what I know of her to predict our discussions and have a decision or position ready - it's just arguing it that can be a little difficult or rambling now. ^_^;;
    I definitely feel that INTJs are better suited to INFPs than an ENTJ might be. I think an INTJ would be better equipped to understand the concerns of an INFP, and not to mention more willing to discuss those concerns in a way that will make an INFP feel safe. I know that the ENFP/INTJ pairing is more touted, but my observation is that (with rare exception) those relationships tend to deteriorate long-term, in spite of the intensity of of the initial attraction.

    It's funny to hear INFPs described as "indecisive". My experience is that they're tolerant of things up to a point but are pretty definite when they hit their limit. I also found it hard to relate to how rigid INFPs I came to know well could be.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Array great_bay's Avatar
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    Benefactor relation has to be my left favorite interpersonal relationship type for romance.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array Patrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    It's funny to hear INFPs described as "indecisive". My experience is that they're tolerant of things up to a point but are pretty definite when they hit their limit. I also found it hard to relate to how rigid INFPs I came to know well could be.
    IMO, quite a few INFPs have Enneagram type Six (and I'm one of them). It's more common to see INFPs as Fours, Nines, or Ones (I've mistyped myself as all those at various times), but Six can fit. And Sixes are usually indecisive and always uncertain--but they can be rigid too, sticking to the rules.

    Anyhow, Fi is a judging function, remember, and it's dominant for INFPs. We can be quite judgmental, even if we do show an easygoing Ne face to the world.

    In addition, male INFPs like me often develop even more than their natural amount of stubbornness to put on a macho air, since society expects something more like an ESTJ personality in males.
    "Some would say that extended meaningful conversation is a thing of the past. But they'd say it more quickly." (Tom Morris)
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