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Thread: INTJ and INFP Relationships

  1. #111
    bad woman Array miss fortune's Avatar
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    @Patrick

    in the end isn't that what relationships are all about? finding someone who you are willing to compromise on things with?

    as a strong P with a strong J, I've learned to do awful things like make lists and occasionally make a budget on paper and worse yet, every once in a while figure out where we're going to stay BEFORE we leave for a strange city

    and I'm not saying that I merely get by going to work and coming home... I've learned to appreciate the simple things like the breeze that picks up after dark on a hot day or how the stars look like sharp pinpoints of light in the winter and how water sprays your face in a fine mist when you're riding in a boat... to me there is the here and the now and there's no guarantee that there will be a tomorrow and it's doubtful that there's anything after I'm done with this life, therefore I'd be wasting the wonders of the universe around me if I didn't enjoy them while I can, before once again joining them in a different state

    ... and now I realize we've seriously gone off topic... that's what you get for allowing P types to go around posting on a forum, I suppose
    “The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, which is why they invent mercy.” -Terry Pratchett
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  2. #112
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    I think the difference can also be explained in terms of interaction styles. Chart-the-Course types (including INTJs) focus on process, while Behind-the-Scenes types (including INFPs) focus on outcomes. For the INFP (and seven other types), there's usually an interest in getting past the process (including any process of change) to the desired result or outcome.
    IME, INTJs focus on results, not process. ENTJs also. We are often criticised for living by an "ends justify the means" philosophy.
    In science, when human behavior enters the equation, things go nonlinear. That's why Physics is easy and Sociology is hard. -- Neil deGrasse Tyson

  3. #113
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    as a strong P with a strong J, I've learned to do awful things like make lists and occasionally make a budget on paper and worse yet, every once in a while figure out where we're going to stay BEFORE we leave for a strange city
    planning, whats that? We don't need no sticking plans, we just need a semi-half-ass direction with added fuzziness.
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.
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  4. #114
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    IME, INTJs focus on results, not process. ENTJs also. We are often criticised for living by an "ends justify the means" philosophy.
    My philosophy is, it doesn't matter what the outcome is as long as you enjoy the process. Plus despite the outcome you learn a lot in the process, I don't just mean learn from your screw ups how to succeed next time. I mean get an understanding of how things work. Like if you take the wrong path, you not only learn what path to take, you learn everything along the other path. I do that at work. I go down a path and then throw my work away because I learned how it works and people try to figure out how I know as much as I do. Because I go down paths irregardless of outcome, to learn and understand, not with sole purpose of accomplishing something, but to figure out how it all works and ties together.
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  5. #115
    Level 8 Scumlord Array SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    planning, whats that? We don't need no sticking plans, we just need a semi-half-ass direction with added fuzziness.
    Agreed!

    Goal > Plan People get overly attached to their well laid plans which just adds unnecessary stress when LIFE happens and your plans go to shit. The ability to adapt and change direction as/when needed is a very useful life skill.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft
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  6. #116
    Senior Member Array Patrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    IME, INTJs focus on results, not process. ENTJs also. We are often criticised for living by an "ends justify the means" philosophy.
    Well, it gets complicated. There's no point in having a process without a goal or vice versa. Here's what Linda Berens says about the INTJ's Chart-the-Course style:

    Chart-the-Course™
    (Drive to get a desired result)The theme is having a course of action to follow. People of this style focus on knowing what to do and keeping themselves, the group, or the project on track. They prefer to enter a situation having an idea of what is to happen. They identify a process to accomplish a goal and have a somewhat contained tension as they work to create and monitor a plan. The aim is not the plan itself, but to use it as a guide to move things along toward the goal. Their informed and deliberate decisions are based on analyzing, outlining, conceptualizing or foreseeing what needs to be done.
    - See more at: Interaction Styles
    But she also says INTJs (and other C-t-C types) focus more on process than outcome when interacting. That's just one of three components of an interaction style, though:

    Directing versus Informing communications—ways we influence others
    Initiating versus Responding roles—ways to define relationships
    Outcome versus Process focus—where we focus our attention when interacting - See more at: Interaction Styles
    INTJs are directing, responding, and focused on process.

    INFPs are informing, responding, and focused on outcome.
    "Some would say that extended meaningful conversation is a thing of the past. But they'd say it more quickly." (Tom Morris)

  7. #117
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    IME, INTJs focus on results, not process. ENTJs also. We are often criticised for living by an "ends justify the means" philosophy.
    Focussing on results does not negate being process-oriented.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #118
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Agreed!

    Goal > Plan People get overly attached to their well laid plans which just adds unnecessary stress when LIFE happens and your plans go to shit. The ability to adapt and change direction as/when needed is a very useful life skill.
    Oh well, I don't really have much goals either I have wants which give me somewhat of a direction. Like my house remodel, no real goals set or defined. I just push and move, we will see how it looks when I am done. Despite lack of goals, I have accomplished more in the 11 months I have lived here then most would have in a several years.

    If you would judge me by "Te" ways of doing things I would be a total and utter failure. If you judge me by just results though its a completely different picture and I earn the respect of the strongest Te users and actually get them to see that another way of life can accomplish things the same. Its how I earn respect from Te, its one of trust because they don't know how the hell I can go through life the way I do, but it works.

    While this should be in the INFP/ISTP thread. That's the issue I have with INFPs in relationships. Its not huge, but causes a lot of problems at first and then becomes trivial. but due to my lack of Te I can stress them out until they realize that I actually accomplish the same thing, just in a different way. I think that's one issue with Te vs Ti and Fe vs Fi. Different ways of going through life, but similar outcomes as long as strength of function is same. Strong Te and Strong Ti will respect each other. Strong Te and Weak Ti will cause issues as well as Weak Te and Strong Ti, I am not referring to order of Te/Ti, but how good we are at utilizing it.
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  9. #119
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    INFPs are informing, responding, and focused on outcome.
    Ps usually tend to focus on outcome when in a stressed situation. When not stressed we usually just go with the flow because we don't worry about outcome.
    Js focus on process when stressed. When not stressed they don't really worry about process much. If you produce the desired results that a J wants they don't care about process, its when you don't they stress over process. Or if the J is stressed from things outside of you, they will focus on process because they are stressed and things need to run smooth due to fear of screwed up outcome. The become controlling.

    This is what I have noticed
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  10. #120
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Ps usually tend to focus on outcome when in a stressed situation. When not stressed we usually just go with the flow because we don't worry about outcome.
    Js focus on process when stressed. When not stressed they don't really worry about process much. If you produce the desired results that a J wants they don't care about process, its when you don't they stress over process. Or if the J is stressed from things outside of you, they will focus on process because they are stressed and things need to run smooth due to fear of screwed up outcome. The become controlling.

    This is what I have noticed
    Remember when you were renovating and you talked about smashing a wall down with your INTJ Dad (I think, sorry if I remember the details incorrectly)? You didn't care how you smashed it down, you just wanted it out of the way, and you picked up the handiest tool to do the job and wham, mission accomplished. A J-type, generally however, will focus on how to get the wall down, will consider all of the details first of that. The consider what process they will use to get there.

    In the meantime, you've picked up the sledgehammer and the point is moot. Wall - gone.

    That's how I see the difference - you and I don't care about how it gets done, but if we get it done expediently or cleverly, more points for us. You enjoy the process far more than I do, I think, but that doesn't change where your energy comes from. J-types are more about "we have to do this, HOW will we do it". Both styles consider the goal and the process, but one reigns more dominant from the focus perspective So, you did indeed care that the wall was taken down, it was in your loosely laid plans. And if that demolition process had gone badly, you may have just adapted your plan to suit the circumstance and make a new goal. J-s (generally) take more care to ensure the process leads to the desired outcome.

    That's kind of how I see it, anyway - what do you think?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
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