User Tag List

Page 10 of 16 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 156

Thread: INTJ and INFP Relationships

  1. #91
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    14,789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Theoretically. But in practice, compatibility makes life so cozy that the couple typically becomes complacent. Why "focus effort in growth" when you're deliriously happy half the time and contented the rest of the time?
    For some of us, growth is a necessary precondition for happiness or contentment.
    A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
    A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door, and a word that shall echo for evermore!
    For, borne on the night-wind of the Past, through all our history, to the last,
    In the hour of darkness and peril and need, the people will waken and listen to hear

    -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
    Likes Osprey, Hard, highlander, chubber, grey_beard liked this post

  2. #92
    Senior Member Array Patrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5 sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    For some of us, growth is a necessary precondition for happiness or contentment.
    Maybe on some level that's true for everybody. But growth implies change, and people generally resist change. How many would pass up a shot at eternal bliss--a permanently static state that leaves one with no complaints whatsoever?

    Besides, if you're in a process of growth, it means you're currently lacking; your full potential is always out of reach. Doesn't that sound frustrating?

    Fairy tales end with "happily ever after"; the story doesn't go on from there. I think that implies that marriage, like heaven, is a state of eternal bliss. If real life isn't like that, I'm guessing many people wish it were.
    "Some would say that extended meaningful conversation is a thing of the past. But they'd say it more quickly." (Tom Morris)

  3. #93
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    14,789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Maybe on some level that's true for everybody. But growth implies change, and people generally resist change. How many would pass up a shot at eternal bliss--a permanently static state that leaves one with no complaints whatsoever?

    Besides, if you're in a process of growth, it means you're currently lacking; your full potential is always out of reach. Doesn't that sound frustrating?
    No. The opposite sounds boring: nothing more to learn or to discover; nothing new ahead; being just the same until the end of your days.
    A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
    A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door, and a word that shall echo for evermore!
    For, borne on the night-wind of the Past, through all our history, to the last,
    In the hour of darkness and peril and need, the people will waken and listen to hear

    -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
    Likes Osprey, chubber, Enygmatic liked this post

  4. #94
    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    3,852

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No. The opposite sounds boring: nothing more to learn or to discover; nothing new ahead; being just the same until the end of your days.
    The constant push and pull is a necessary "evil" to not become complacent. And INFPs don't like to "fight" or even play fight. They don't get it and don't need it either. It's like trying to talk to a wall from our point of view. Now I'm sure they will pick this up as me being "passive aggressive" and talking negative about them. When I am saying, they are not good enough for me, it doesn't mean that they are not good enough or bad people.



    That's why I feel that when I deal with an IxFP, I might as well deal with an ExFJ. The functions are in the same order. e.g. Feeling-Dominant, iNtuition-Auxiliary, except for the opposites attitudes of the functions. It's a very broad and general statement to make, because it overlooks the specifics of the functions, that makes them different. But to me, they look like two sides of the same coin.

    I've noticed that some say, the INFPs will say that INTJs have tertiary "Fi, that tertiary Fi means nothing. We are not aware and when we do happen to use it, it is only used when we are in our shadow (bad version of an ESFP). We only get to be our shadow, when we are angry/depressed/mad state. Then they might be able to make us more aware of our Fi. But who wants to live in their shadow state all the time? Neither does the INFP want to be the bad version of an ESTJ all the time.

    I personally think INTJs who are irrational (introverted iNuition) dominants, need to pair up with other irrational (Se/i or Ne/i) dominants.

    Sure it can work between an INTJ and INFP, if they are both aware that things will not work out the same way the Ne-dominant will work out with an Ni-dominant and also the Fi-dominant (rational) with the Fe-dominant (rational).

    meh

    INTJ RELATIONSHIPS

    In romance, people with the INTJ personality type approach things the way they do with most situations: they compose a series of calculated actions with a predicted and desirable end goal – a healthy long-term relationship. Rather than falling head over heels in a whirlwind of passion and romance, INTJs identify potential partners who meet a certain range of pre-determined criteria, break the dating process down into a series of measurable milestones, then proceed to execute the plan with clinical precision.

    In a purely rational world, this is a fool-proof methodology – but in reality, it ignores significant details that INTJs are likely to dismiss prematurely, such as human nature. INTJs are brilliantly intellectual, developing a world in their heads that is more perfect than reality. People entering this world need to fit this fantasy, and it can be incredibly difficult for INTJs to find someone up to the task. Needless to say, finding a compatible partner is the most significant challenge most INTJs will face in life.

    Politeness Is Artificial Good Humor

    Sentiment, tradition, and emotion are INTJs' Achilles Heel. Social standards like chivalry are viewed by INTJs as silly, even demeaning. The problem is, these standards have developed as a means of smoothing introductions and developing rapport, of managing expectations, the basis of personal relationships. INTJs' propensity for frank honesty in word and action tends to violate this social contract, making dating especially difficult for them.

    As they mature, INTJs will come to recognize these factors as relevant, incorporating pace and emotional availability into their plans. But the meantime can be dangerous, especially for more Turbulent INTJs – if they are shot down too many times they may come to the conclusion that everyone else is simply too irrational, or simply beneath them intellectually. If cynicism takes hold, INTJs may end up falling into the trap of intentionally displaying intellectual arrogance, making solitude their choice rather than happenstance.

    Always Remain Cool

    The positive side of INTJs' “giving up” is that they are most attractive when they aren't trying to be attractive, working in a familiar environment where their confidence and intelligence can be seen in action. Allowing others to come to them is often INTJs' best strategy, and if they perceive a potential to the relationship, they will spare no effort in developing and maintaining stability and long-term satisfaction.

    As their relationships develop, INTJs' partners will find an imaginative and enthusiastic companion, who will share their world and at the same time grant a huge degree of independence and trust. While INTJs may never be fully comfortable expressing their feelings, and may spend more time theorizing about intimacy than engaging in it, they can always be relied upon to think out a mutually beneficial solution to any situation.

    INTJs seek strong, deep relationships, and trust their knowledge and logic to ensure that their partner is satisfied, both intellectually and physically.

    But when it comes to emotional satisfaction, INTJs are simply out of their element. Not every partner has the sort of fun INTJs do in addressing conflicts and emotional needs as puzzles to be analyzed and solved. Sometimes emotions need to be expressed for their own sake, and putting every outburst under the microscope isn't always helpful. If this becomes habit, or INTJs think it may, they are capable of simply ending the relationship, rather than dragging things out.

    source: INTJ Relationships | 16Personalities
    INTJs have no problem walking away from a relationship and moving on very quickly. People aren't our thing, we give up on people pretty quickly, but not the same when it comes to analytical technical challenge. That's (people) the INFP's strength.

  5. #95
    Member Array pluviophile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    NFI sx/so
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    The constant push and pull is a necessary "evil" to not become complacent. And INFPs don't like to "fight" or even play fight.

  6. #96
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    The constant push and pull is a necessary "evil" to not become complacent. And INFPs don't like to "fight" or even play fight. They don't get it and don't need it either.
    I have found that trying to strip things down to their basic structural intellectual elements -- and, as part of the process, leaving aside "for the moment" the social implications...both of the topics under the microscope, and the social implications of 'using the microscope' -- can drive INFPs batty. Some INFPs who are either more mature, or more experienced, are able to put up with leaving aside the social considerations involved with the topics being analyzed, _temporarily_. But to do so puts great stress upon their running gears.

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    It's like trying to talk to a wall from our point of view. Now I'm sure they will pick this up as me being "passive aggressive" and talking negative about them. When I am saying, they are not good enough for me, it doesn't mean that they are not good enough or bad people.




    The ability to set one's own self outside while doing the analysis (and the significant others one is in a relationship with), is a no-go zone, like a space without air. For while the Te lives in the world of impersonal fact, and can be used as a sensitive tool for plucking specks out of others' eyes, the INFP is unable to forget the log in the INTJ's eye. And, for that matter, in their own eye, but using that fault to approach issues from the inside, from common humanity: for the INFP lives in the world of self, the world of being, not data.

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    That's why I feel that when I deal with an IxFP, I might as well deal with an ExFJ. The functions are in the same order. e.g. Feeling-Dominant, iNtuition-Auxiliary, except for the opposites attitudes of the functions. It's a very broad and general statement to make, because it overlooks the specifics of the functions, that makes them different. But to me, they look like two sides of the same coin.
    This sounds very insightful, and like it's based on experience. But it's totally outside of anything I've dealt with. Could you give a couple of examples of the functions on either side, how they play out?

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    I've noticed that some say, the INFPs will say that INTJs have tertiary "Fi, that tertiary Fi means nothing. We are not aware and when we do happen to use it, it is only used when we are in our shadow (bad version of an ESFP). We only get to be our shadow, when we are angry/depressed/mad state. Then they might be able to make us more aware of our Fi. But who wants to live in their shadow state all the time? Neither does the INFP want to be the bad version of an ESTJ all the time.
    That's true, *unless* the INTJ has been very introspective in general, *or* if the subject discussed with the INFP is one the INTJ has long ruminated on. In that case, the INTJ may be able to couch things in emotional- or value-laden terms...or at least not in terms of coupled differential equations : close enough that the INFP, who is long accustomed to gaining insight by internalizing the heart-space of another, can siphon off true meaning from it. And if the INTJ can trust enough to show their tertiary Fi in the raw, virgin Fi, "untrammeled by human hands" ...well, for the INFP, it can be like drinking raw nectar. But that has its own risks for the INTJ, when the INFP happens to get bored, or gets distracted by a passing squirrel, and disappears without bothering to close the INTJ's cell wall first, *or* the INTJ hits an undisclosed INFP values land-mine and the INFP goes into rabid-cat mode, blurting out terrible truths, reducing the insides of the INTJ to quivering ribbons.

    (I'm sure the INFPs have their own perspective on the above; and what's more, have their own catalogue of the INTJ's sins. The terrible sterile aridity of the INTJ exterior must be like suffocation or something, and I'll bet day-to-day *living* with the INTJ, who says "I love you" once and thinks that settles matters for the next thirty years, together with the endless pursuit of TRUTH to the umpteenth decimal place, regardless of its effect on harmony and affirmation, can be like being caught in the garbage compactor on the Death Star in Star Wars...)

    [Note to any INFPs lurking on this thread: did I get that last paragraph close enough?]

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    I personally think INTJs who are irrational (introverted iNuition) dominants, need to pair up with other irrational (Se/i or Ne/i) dominants.

    Sure it can work between an INTJ and INFP, if they are both aware that things will not work out the same way the Ne-dominant will work out with an Ni-dominant and also the Fi-dominant (rational) with the Fe-dominant (rational).

    meh
    So what *you're* saying, chubber (frantically returning to Te mode for air!) is that that the INTJ is like pi (infinite precision, but still irrational despite all the numbers floating around), and the
    INFP is imaginary (requiring contour integration to handle their poles in the complex plane).

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    (snip)
    In a purely rational world, this is a fool-proof methodology – but in reality, it ignores significant details that INTJs are likely to dismiss prematurely, such as human nature.
    Rub it in, why don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Sentiment, tradition, and emotion are INTJs' Achilles Heel. Social standards like chivalry are viewed by INTJs as silly, even demeaning. The problem is, these standards have developed as a means of smoothing introductions and developing rapport, of managing expectations, the basis of personal relationships. INTJs' propensity for frank honesty in word and action tends to violate this social contract, making dating especially difficult for them.

    As they mature, INTJs will come to recognize these factors as relevant, incorporating pace and emotional availability into their plans. But the meantime can be dangerous, especially for more Turbulent INTJs – if they are shot down too many times they may come to the conclusion that everyone else is simply too irrational, or simply beneath them intellectually. If cynicism takes hold, INTJs may end up falling into the trap of intentionally displaying intellectual arrogance, making solitude their choice rather than happenstance.
    I personally have come to hold, that this is because many INTJs are bewildered by the complex give-and-take of changing situations and half-truths depending on the timing, situation, and audience; and in being blunt and too honest, are merely offering that clarity which they long for from others. But most other people don't *want* their inner parts exposed, cleaned, polished, re-aligned, and oiled: especially not in public. (WTF are you NUTS?!!) Many others would rather have the issue hinted at from one or two questions away, and vague validations given (as Billy Joel sang in Piano Man,
    "...they're sharing a drink they call loneliness, but it's better than drinking alone."

    The INFP is somehow deft enough to touch on others' internals in an non-threatening way, temporarily metamorphosize *into* the other person, and somehow lead them out of the quicksand one step at a time, or absorb the pain. (see the Star Trek episode The Empath; see also "magical healing rays"...)

    Am I allowed to say I am in awe?

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    INTJs have no problem walking away from a relationship and moving on very quickly. People aren't our thing, we give up on people pretty quickly, but not the same when it comes to analytical technical challenge. That's (people) the INFP's strength.
    Aye, that's true. But INFPs can doorslam too -- the difference is the INFP can feel every drop and throb of the pain (their own and the slam-ee), and yet derive nourishment from that pain in the long term
    ("...then he remembers all this, and boils it inside him and makes it into poems and wisdom.") <-- Egads! That almost sounded like a description of Bukowski.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.
    Likes Ghost, Rambling liked this post

  7. #97
    Senior Member Array Patrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5 sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No. The opposite sounds boring: nothing more to learn or to discover; nothing new ahead; being just the same until the end of your days.
    Huh--interesting. I've heard a lot of people say that, but I don't know if it's type-related. My INTJ wife complains about boredom a thousand times more often than I do, though.

    The religion I've followed for over forty years teaches that there's always a plus element--that there's never any end to personal or spiritual growth/unfoldment, but it just goes on and on. I acknowledge and believe that, but quite frankly I miss my childhood Catholic teaching about eternal bliss in heaven. What could conceivably be better than eternal bliss? Nothing I can imagine.

    The Talking Heads may have called heaven "the place where nothing ever happens." But as far as I'm concerned, that's just a failure to understand the term "eternal bliss." If there's eternal bliss, there's no boredom, no discontentment--nothing the least bit unpleasant in any way. It's the fairy-tale ending ("and they lived happily ever after") come true.

    I'm guessing this difference in outlook may tie in with the Reinin dichotomy Static/Dynamic. Most INFPs are EII and static, and most INTJs are ILI and dynamic (if the link between Myers-Briggs and Socionics holds up). My INTJ wife doesn't get why I tend to "freeze-frame" things and speak of changes as a series of fixed chapters rather than ongoing processes. Meanwhile I don't get how she can live with a constant process of change; it would wear me out in no time.
    "Some would say that extended meaningful conversation is a thing of the past. But they'd say it more quickly." (Tom Morris)

  8. #98
    Senior Member Array ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    7,532

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    My INTJ wife doesn't get why I tend to "freeze-frame" things and speak of changes as a series of fixed chapters rather than ongoing processes. Meanwhile I don't get how she can live with a constant process of change; it would wear me out in no time.
    Change is an ongoing process. It has to be. You just frame in fixed chapters with a beginning and an end. That doesn't mean that's how it really is.

    Besides, if you're in a process of growth, it means you're currently lacking; your full potential is always out of reach. Doesn't that sound frustrating?
    Not at all and I don't feel growth means you're lacking anything. I want to know what that is, what is over there, what is this made of, where does that road go. When you say reaching your full potential, you're putting some kind of limit on a person. I don't see it that way.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  9. #99
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    14,789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    I've noticed that some say, the INFPs will say that INTJs have tertiary "Fi, that tertiary Fi means nothing. We are not aware and when we do happen to use it, it is only used when we are in our shadow (bad version of an ESFP). We only get to be our shadow, when we are angry/depressed/mad state. Then they might be able to make us more aware of our Fi. But who wants to live in their shadow state all the time? Neither does the INFP want to be the bad version of an ESTJ all the time.
    I disagree with this analysis of our tert Fi. Of course we don't use it in the same way as an Fi dom/aux, but it means much more than nothing. Remember, Fi is not emotions, it is subjective judgment, which includes our values. Most INTJs I know have strong values which underly our actions. Though we rely on objective analysis to implement Ni-based visions, when we describe why we are doing something and why it is important, we are tapping into our values, and our Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    INTJs have no problem walking away from a relationship and moving on very quickly. People aren't our thing, we give up on people pretty quickly, but not the same when it comes to analytical technical challenge. That's (people) the INFP's strength.
    Quite true. Technical challenges, after all, are far more tractable.
    A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
    A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door, and a word that shall echo for evermore!
    For, borne on the night-wind of the Past, through all our history, to the last,
    In the hour of darkness and peril and need, the people will waken and listen to hear

    -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  10. #100
    Senior Member Array Patrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5 sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Change is an ongoing process. It has to be. You just frame in fixed chapters with a beginning and an end. That doesn't mean that's how it really is.
    I'm getting mightily tired of people in this forum claiming to know all about reality--and how their view of reality is "how it really is," while mine must be some kind of weird fairy tale or distorted misconception. I've gotten that from a few people just in the past week (all NTs, IIRC). Each of us may perceive reality in a different way, and this is a fine place to discuss the differences. IMO it's entirely out of place to say or imply that you see how reality actually is, whereas others merely frame reality in various ways.

    That said, I'll mention that my INTJ wife, when I explained Reinin's Static/Dynamic dichotomy to her, expressed disbelief in the Static view. She couldn't imagine that anyone would see things that way.

    I think the difference can also be explained in terms of interaction styles. Chart-the-Course types (including INTJs) focus on process, while Behind-the-Scenes types (including INFPs) focus on outcomes. For the INFP (and seven other types), there's usually an interest in getting past the process (including any process of change) to the desired result or outcome.

    I'd say that's tied in with the "static" view of developments. When something is completed, the INFP might say, "We did a bunch of stuff and then finally arrived at our goal, and it's great to have made it." The INTJ might say, "We did this, and then we did that, and then we did these other things, making various adjustments along the way, and it was a fun but challenging process ... and, oh yeah, we got to where we were headed, of course, but now we're on to something else."

    Not at all and I don't feel growth means you're lacking anything. I want to know what that is, what is over there, what is this made of, where does that road go. When you say reaching your full potential, you're putting some kind of limit on a person. I don't see it that way.
    I'm sure you're right. But it's still discouraging to me when, after a long effort, I finally reach the crest of a hill, only to see that the path goes on and on over more and more hills. Each time I near a crest, I'm thinking, "This may be it! Could be we've almost arrived at the place we were headed to." And then my heart sinks when it turns out the destination is still far off. It's immeasurably worse if pursuing the goal is like chasing the horizon or the end of the rainbow. Without the joy of arrival and the reward of resting on my laurels, no journey ever seems worthwhile to me.

    Yeah, some time long after the celebration, I'll probably grow tired of the plateau I've reached, and then I'll be ready for another journey. But that's for the future. And when that day comes, it'll feel to me like a brand-new journey, not part of some never-ending process.
    "Some would say that extended meaningful conversation is a thing of the past. But they'd say it more quickly." (Tom Morris)
    Likes highlander, PeaceBaby liked this post

Page 10 of 16 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. INTJ and INFJ Relationships
    By highlander in forum Intertype Relations
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-31-2016, 02:30 PM
  2. [MBTItm] ESTJ and INFP Relationship?
    By TheEmeraldCanopy in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 01-13-2016, 12:24 AM
  3. INFJ and INFP Relationships
    By highlander in forum Intertype Relations
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-19-2015, 09:02 AM
  4. [ENFP] ENFP and INFP relationship
    By Lotr246 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 04-29-2013, 03:35 PM
  5. [MBTItm] ISTP and INFP relationship
    By cooliogirly1000 in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-31-2009, 01:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •