ENTP and INFJ Relationships

[chubber]

scatch that btw. Upon quick googling, it appears men of reproductive age (straight men) are negatively cognitively impaired by female observers. Though I didn't see a test specific to IQ tests. Not sure. a bit tired atm.

How does one get you to apologise?

 

[EcK]

How does one get you to apologise?

Apologize first. Then we can start talking terms.

(the terms of your surrender that is )

More seriously:

If I'm factually wrong about something that is essential to the argument I will admit I'm wrong.
I will be less likely to do so if I fear I'm facing an idiot and that giving any ground will convince them that they are magically right about everything despite the fact that I poked 1001 holes in their argument just prior to that. I will try to however when I can for the sake of intellectual honesty. But it rarely pays off if the person I'm talking to is not reason-able

I actually enjoy it because I get to learn something from another human being for a change.

Issue it it's quite rare for it to happen.

 

[chubber]

Apologize first. Then we can start talking terms.

(the terms of your surrender that is )

More seriously:

If I'm factually wrong about something that is essential to the argument I will admit I'm wrong.
I actually enjoy it because I get to learn something from another human being for a change.

Issue it it's quite rare for it to happen.

I don't know, maybe she wasn't an Ne-dom? Because even after I reeled in the other consultants and confirmed and proved that I was factually correct. I didn't get anything. I even asked.

Never give up, Never surrender?

 

[EcK]

I don't know, maybe she wasn't an Ne-dom? Because even after I reeled in the other consultants and confirmed and proved that I was factually correct. I didn't get anything. I even asked.

Never give up, Never surrender?

Depends. What was the argument? INTJs can be pretty stubborn about acknowledging alternative rationals too. (not saying entps are perfect - though it's true)

Personally I midly enjoy eating average entp for breakfast. Because there's nothing more amusing/boring to me than intellectually less capable live-to-debate-and-poke-holes-in-argument-people when you can eat their argument alive without a second thought.

But entps tend to use hum.. theater. So it only really works in public where you can shame them. If you don't know debate-theater they'll manage to wriggle out with a smile.

Keep in mind these are demons people who think there's nothing more amusing than spending half of their days shooting puns at people and arguing absolute horshit for their own sick amusement.


We're horrible people basically. Our only redeeming quality is that we're generally too messy to cause too much damage.

 

[chubber]

scatch that btw. Upon quick googling, it appears men (straight men) are negatively cognitively impaired by female observers. Though I didn't see a test specific to IQ tests. Not sure. a bit tired atm.

here's one link: Hot Women Make Men Dumb andblessDumber - | - Science of Relationships (i'm sure there's a link to the study there, I hate these 'pop' articles, they're so vague)

ah that's better:
The mere anticipation of an interaction with a woman can impair men's cognitive performance. - PubMed - NCBI

Interestingly, women tend to do slightly better with a 'male' oversight while men go full retard.

It kind of make me think that the whole 'boys and girls should study separately at school' it not such a bad idea.

So what are you saying, that she went "slightly" retarded because she found me attractive?

 

[EcK]

So what are you saying, that she went "slightly" retarded because she found me attractive?

Nah quite the contrary, statistically speaking she would have been slightly better at reading the correct word despite contradicting font color in your presence.
While your performance would have dropped by an easy 10%

personally I think only showing a 10% drop on this test while imagining someone naked and 10 ways to look cooler and say hi is pretty respectable.

 

[chubber]

Nah quite the contrary, statistically speaking she would have been slightly better at reading the correct word despite contradicting font color in your presence.
While your performance would have dropped by an easy 10%

personally I think only showing a 10% drop on this test while imagining someone naked and 10 ways to look cooler and say hi is pretty respectable.

What are you talking about, it's to correctly identify the colour. Not reading the word that is difficult.

 

[EcK]

What are you talking about, it's to correctly identify the colour. Not reading the word that is difficult.

Yeah sorry. tired as I said. Haven't slept.
(see, was wrong about important point- apologized)

Cognitive tests: Color Reading Interference (Stroop) if you feel liek wasting time, after a while you can just click on 'results' as it will just go on forever otherwise (it's evil - did like 150 before I gave up)

accuracy: 98 something % (actually keyboard mistakes rather than identifying the wrong color *swears* )
time (normal) 1st try 763.06 ms second try: 726.10 ms
time (interference) 1st try 995.32 ms second try: 951.97 ms ms

It'd be interesting to try again when I've slept. just to see the effect of sleep deprivation...

Issue is I would then be a bit 'trained' so would naturally score better. Gah.

I'd assume that after say, half an hour training I could go down to like, 600 and 800. These kinds of test are interesting.
Given human reflexes + processing time though there has to be some hard limit. I'd assume getting used to the 'keys' and shutting that annoying inner voice could get it down a good 30%. not sure if it's possible to go lower than 0.5s though. As muscles need to move etc.

IQ would be an advantage though due to higher myelination in frontal cortex ... I guess.

But there's always going to be someome who 'trains themselves' to be some kind of machine at these tests by cutting off all conscious thought and uncessary processes and just become this crazy 'color identifying' sentient type writer.

 

[Cellmold]

Apologize first. Then we can start talking terms.

(the terms of your surrender that is )

More seriously:

If I'm factually wrong about something that is essential to the argument I will admit I'm wrong.
I will be less likely to do so if I fear I'm facing an idiot and that giving any ground will convince them that they are magically right about everything despite the fact that I poked 1001 holes in their argument just prior to that. I will try to however when I can for the sake of intellectual honesty. But it rarely pays off if the person I'm talking to is not reason-able

I actually enjoy it because I get to learn something from another human being for a change.

Issue it it's quite rare for it to happen.

With regards to second spoiler: You mean those people who build one deficiency into an inalienable proof that your argument failed? Most human beings in fact? (Well I've done it so it must be that everyone else has /delusion)

It's well documented (meaning my heuristically observed opinion without any other evidence or studying) that it becomes about reputation and image vs integrity of conduct and content of argument. And I think a lot of arguments are 'won' by appeal to the first two rather than the second two. Except where patience, structure in debate and...yknow online is concerned. Because there's time to read and understand, not that many make that effort and maybe some are incapable.

But verbal arguments particularly tend to play off the subjective interpretation too much. If one side mishears the other and will not be convinced otherwise then the entire argument switches to a misheard stance of understanding and so is mutilated from the beginning.

 

[chubber]

Yeah sorry. tired as I said. Haven't slept.
(see, was wrong about important point- apologized)

Cognitive tests: Color Reading Interference (Stroop) if you feel liek wasting time, after a while you can just click on 'results' as it will just go on forever otherwise (it's evil - did like 150 before I gave up)

accuracy: 98 something % (actually keyboard mistakes rather than identifying the wrong color *swears* )
time (normal) 1st try 763.06 ms second try: 726.10 ms
time (interference) 1st try 995.32 ms second try: 951.97 ms ms

It'd be interesting to try again when I've slept. just to see the effect of sleep deprivation...

Why aren't you sleeping? Your time zone is suppose to be close to mine. Get into bed you scallywag.

Issue is I would then be a bit 'trained' so would naturally score better. Gah.

I'd assume that after say, half an hour training I could go down to like, 600 and 800. These kinds of test are interesting.
Given human reflexes + processing time though there has to be some hard limit. I'd assume getting used to the 'keys' and shutting that annoying inner voice could get it down a good 30%. not sure if it's possible to go lower than 0.5s though. As muscles need to move etc.

IQ would be an advantage though due to higher myelination in frontal cortex ... I guess.

But there's always going to be someome who 'trains themselves' to be some kind of machine at these tests by cutting off all conscious thought and uncessary processes and just become this crazy 'color identifying' sentient type writer.

This whole argument thing between Ne vs Ni, reminds me of what Beebe's version of the theory is: INFJ Archetypes

But then I have to wonder why would one party say, "natural partner", vs the other party saying "natural enemies". Perhaps there is truth in the saying you, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer?

 

[EcK]

Why aren't you sleeping? Your time zone is suppose to be close to mine. Get into bed you scallywag.



This whole argument thing between Ne vs Ni, reminds me of what Beebe's version of the theory is: INFJ Archetypes

But then I have to wonder why would one party say, "natural partner", vs the other party saying "natural enemies". Perhaps there is truth in the saying you, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer?

Perhaps the "i can save him syndrome"

 

[EcK]

With regards to second spoiler: You mean those people who build one deficiency into an inalienable proof that your argument failed? Most human beings in fact? (Well I've done it so it must be that everyone else has /delusion)

It's well documented (meaning my heuristically observed opinion without any other evidence or studying) that it becomes about reputation and image vs integrity of conduct and content of argument. And I think a lot of arguments are 'won' by appeal to the first two rather than the second two. Except where patience, structure in debate and...yknow online is concerned. Because there's time to read and understand, not that many make that effort and maybe some are incapable.

But verbal arguments particularly tend to play off the subjective interpretation too much. If one side mishears the other and will not be convinced otherwise then the entire argument switches to a misheard stance of understanding and so is mutilated from the beginning.

Ok so I was answering that, then I kind of phased out. I mean something came up. And now the text is forever lost.
While I and everyone else is faillible. Because if we weren't... where would be the fun in that?! We're explorers, if we knew everything there'd be nothing to explore. (well frankly we're 90% couch pandas, 10% explorer).

It is a common stratagem to discard a whole line of reasoning due to one non essential mistake. I can respect that when I and the person doing it are fully aware of it, then it's a game.
But it's a whole other truckload/species of boring when it's due to logic-fail. I'm perfectly fine with people not having perhaps, the capacity / innate talent/however you want to call it to process data, I actually have much more respect for someone of average capacity thriving to understand something than pseudo intellectuals parroting something they don't themselves really understand (80% of the stuff I hear). If you can't create the logic on your own based on a small sample/partial synopsis of the data YOU DONT GET IT/It's over your head.

I for one am lucky I guess in that I can pretty much grasp anything near instantly. Though there are of course far brighter minds than I. I wish there were more per capita so I could learn more stuff from fellow humans. Though there's plenty of smart people on this forum for example. (not at all representative of general population, the 3/100 is common here, and there's quite a few 1 in 10,000 types.)

That's why I and I suspect quite a few others stick around on Typc.

Going back to mbti, I've often enjoyed conversations with INFJs as they often present similar data in wholy new, softer, perspectives. Often reaching similar conclusions and more importantly learning from each other. That's something I value immensely. So it's nice to be able to sit down and have a chat sometimes. Though having the same conversation while doing a barathon is multiple times more entertaining.

Now, we both know that we're a bunch of smart apes. That comes with lots of bagage. People lLaughing at what you say is status signaling, telling everyone around that you are high value and so are your opinions.. helps win arguments, attractiveness to win arguments, confidence wins arguments, tone of voice and not ending sentences on a higher pitch note wins arguments, how tall you are wins arguments, being a very attractive female will help you win arguments against men, etc. While all these things have, of course, nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Keep in mind that a debate is a sort of 'game'. If applied to most real life situations the traits needed to 'convince' in an argument are leadership traits in one way or another. These traits were never meant to win arguments, they were meant to create tribal leaders federating humans, increasing cooperation for added value for the whole group. (even if you're a shitty leader, if you can convince smart apes to work together that means increase survival rates on av. compared to people running amoc)

 

[EcK]

No experience with ENTPs in real life... but I have a feeling that I might not get along well with an extravert. I can't match their energy.

the sex is pretty great though.

 

[Starry]

the sex is pretty great though.

What time is it in France?

 

[EcK]

What time is it in France?

https://www.google.fr/webhp?sourcei...1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=what time is it in france

also, I'm going to hazard a:
Is it sexy / naked sleepover time?

 

[Dyslexxie]

I didn't realize so many of y'all got behind this combination.

I like INFJs and I don't really judge people on personalities (I'm a) oblivious b) don't care c) personality isn't an end all be all), but here's what I can see as a challenge with almost any introverted type and ENTPs: we talk a lot, often without thinking (or while thinking? That sounds better, right?), and we're definitely prone to verbal diarrhea which can become overwhelming to introverted types, and can scare them to some degree. I had an ISFP best friend growing up and while we were inseparable, she did say she often felt overshadowed and intimidated by me and my whole 'don't care how stupid I sound, here's who I am' thing - it comes off as confidence (even if it isn't always), but most people aren't quite that comfortable in their own skin to just lay it all out on the table. I've found that to be a thing with a lot of other personalities, because we do have a pretty overwhelming one overall, and if you're not used to it, it's to get lost in it.

Similarly, the issue I've had with introverts (and INFJs especially) is the lack of response. I'm impatient and I always lay everything on the table (you'll know me instantly - I have no secrets/hidden side to me - it's all out there if you want it), while introverts seem to go through this processing phase where they have to analyze you, take it in and decide, become comfortable and ultimately you have to discover them and dig through their layers, and depending how introverted they are, it can be a very frustrating task. I love introverts as friends but I can only handle them so much. After a while it becomes tiring dealing with the reservation. Generally I think the more introverted the person, the harder it is for me to want to pursue it to a deeper level.

 

[EcK]

What do you think about relationships between ENTPs and INFJs? The focus of this is really on romantic relationships but it also makes sense to discuss your experience in situations where these two types interact in a significant way – such as friendship, at work, etc.

When it’s working – What are the joys and positive aspects of these relationships?
- How compatible do you think these two types are in general?
- Why are they attracted to each other?
- How to they compliment each other?
- How well do they understand each other and why?
- What are they like together raising children?

When it’s not working – What are the challenges when two people of this type are in a relationship?
- What are some of the communication challenges they can have?
- What are the biggest frustrations between these two types?
- How can they take each other for granted?
- What happens with things “go wrong” between these two types?

Advice for couples – What recommendations do you have?
- What things should each type do to facilitate better communication?
- What advice do you have for each of the two types?
- If you are an ENTP, what advice do you have for the INFJs?
- If you are an INFJ, what advice would you have for the ENTPs?

Are you breeding an ENTP/INFJ master race?

Did an ex-nazi eugenicist reveal to you that they make INTJ babies and its all part of your 80-year world domination plan?
And what role does the forum play in that nefarious plan?

All questions left unanswered. Suspiciously so.

 

[Starry]

https://www.google.fr/webhp?sourcei...1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=what time is it in france

also, I'm going to hazard a:
Is it sexy / naked sleepover time?

That was a very difficult read for me Eck prior to getting fully coffeed-up here in my time zone.
(okay I'm totally laughing)

 

[EcK]

That was a very difficult read for me Eck prior to getting fully coffeed-up here in my time zone.
(okay I'm totally laughing)

I understand this video was a very difficult read.
You might want to update your neural codices

 

[Starry]

I understand this video was a very difficult read.
You might want to update your neural codices

Interpersonal Relationship Check-In and Feedback point:


I wanted to share with you Eck that my delay in responding was not due to me sitting here in front of my computer for a really long-ass time trying to figure-out what you were attempting to express. No.

Nothing about your message was confusing to me in any way.