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ENFP and INTJ relationships

Chthonic

New member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
683
Well I appreciate your candor and idealism. Nice to know that people-stuff is hard for more than just me, I don't feel so bad now since friends are hard to come by even for enfp's. ;)
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think what shits me so much about enfp's is the capacity for constant lying in an effort to grease the social wheels. I have such a hard time respecting anyone who lies to me in this manner. I don't trust it nor the person it comes from. It's just a tactic....I'll tell you what you want to hear so you will give me what I want. It's totally legit because it's the 'smart' thing to do in this situation. :sick:

Not in my book. It's theft of the other person's confidence because you presented a false aspect in order to gain access to something they would not have given you, had your intentions been clear. Which naturally leads to the suspicion that you will now betray them since you had less than honest intentions in gaining it.

Interesting....I experience this far, far more with FJs. I don't find ENFPs so insincere, generally speaking.
 

Chthonic

New member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
683
Interesting....I experience this far, far more with FJs. I don't find ENFPs so insincere, generally speaking.

I was in a training session once with a bunch of peeps and we did MBTI training stuff as part of the course. In that course there were 2 ISFJs, a female and male, and a male ESFJ. I found the Js came across quite bluntly but I'm accustomed to that. Can't say as I found any of those people to be particularly disingenuous. Abrasive at times? Definately but not necessarily manipulative.

There is something about the open-ended P which sets me off I think. The saying of things which could be interpreted either way, it rankles me a bit. Almost like it's a double blind study to see which of those two options I'm going to take and I invariably think I'll pick the wrong one. It's a trap! :huh: That coupled with the natural enfp curiosity about people, something I see as a tendency to want to tinker with emotional states and button pressing.

Whereas a J is really obvious. They just straight up state what's on their mind. They've decided, it's not up for debate, a what is statement is what you get from them. I appreciate that about people and I think I trust it more. Subconsciously I think it says to me.....this is a person who has already decided and they won't change their mind just because of the flow of sentiment that's going to ensue. They're not waiting to see where the tide is turning and jump on the winning side. However wrong that subsconscious thought is, it's what's going on with me. :mellow:
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,265
I was in a training session once with a bunch of peeps and we did MBTI training stuff as part of the course. In that course there were 2 ISFJs, a female and male, and a male ESFJ. I found the Js came across quite bluntly but I'm accustomed to that. Can't say as I found any of those people to be particularly disingenuous. Abrasive at times? Definately but not necessarily manipulative.

There is something about the open-ended P which sets me off I think. The saying of things which could be interpreted either way, it rankles me a bit. Almost like it's a double blind study to see which of those two options I'm going to take and I invariably think I'll pick the wrong one. It's a trap! :huh: That coupled with the natural enfp curiosity about people, something I see as a tendency to want to tinker with emotional states and button pressing.

Whereas a J is really obvious. They just straight up state what's on their mind. They've decided, it's not up for debate, a what is statement is what you get from them. I appreciate that about people and I think I trust it more. Subconsciously I think it says to me.....this is a person who has already decided and they won't change their mind just because of the flow of sentiment that's going to ensue. They're not waiting to see where the tide is turning and jump on the winning side. However wrong that subsconscious thought is, it's what's going on with me. :mellow:

I think it depends on the individual for what counts as insincere. I've had people claim me to be very insincere, and people claim me to be one of the most sincere person they've ever met. Why the difference? What they categorize as sincere and insincere. I operate heavily off the external world, and for a type such as an INFP, that can seem very wrong and very alien to them. They operate off the internal and that is why the view themselves as very sincere and genuine because it comes from the self and is "pure" in effect. Where as if you operate off the external there is a lot of filters, loops, checks, etc that, from the prospective of someone who doesn't operate that way, appears insincere, hollow, or wrong.

I consider myself a very sincere person. The thing is though the way I am and appear changes a lot depending on where I am at. That doesn't make me any less sincere, it's just environmental dependent; whatever I output is going to be what I regard as normal for the conditions. But to many, the idea of giving different outputs depending on the environment violates the very definition of sincere.
 

Chthonic

New member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
683
I think it depends on the individual for what counts as insincere.

They operate off the internal and that is why the view themselves as very sincere and genuine because it comes from the self and is "pure" in effect. Where as if you operate off the external there is a lot of filters, loops, checks, etc that, from the prospective of someone who doesn't operate that way, appears insincere, hollow, or wrong.

But to many, the idea of giving different outputs depending on the environment violates the very definition of sincere.

Oh...so many new thoughts here. Thanks for that. I had never considered it this way. Goes off to check some stuff.....:reading:
 

Bardsandwarriors

Xena's boyfriend
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
100
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
The INTJ would likely spike the ENFP at some point which would invoke the rage of the ENFP which would then offend the INTJ and make them get all defensive.

I have an INTJ brother, and it goes just like this. He has so many intensely private schemes, that it's not possible to live side by side without getting spiked or tripped up. I try to be honest and open and keep things positive, but it never works out!

We went through a period of a decade or two, when we got along well. We could discuss things at length, and play games, and get along (mostly). But ultimately, my need for a positive upbeat atmosphere was not compatible with his need for studied, private, often sour judgements.

I am surprised that a lot of sites recommend the ENFP - INTJ mix. I don't see it.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
I have an INTJ brother, and it goes just like this. He has so many intensely private schemes, that it's not possible to live side by side without getting spiked or tripped up. I try to be honest and open and keep things positive, but it never works out!

We went through a period of a decade or two, when we got along well. We could discuss things at length, and play games, and get along (mostly). But ultimately, my need for a positive upbeat atmosphere was not compatible with his need for studied, private, often sour judgements.

I am surprised that a lot of sites recommend the ENFP - INTJ mix. I don't see it.
I can only surmise that once the extremities of the personalities have been worn down by the world that the differences in that mix make for an entertaining life. My ENFP and INTJ friends have hearty debates and seem to get on well to a certain degree. Both know that the other comes from an entirely different standpoint and each seems to value the others thoughts regardless of whether they agree with them. It's certainly not boring to observe for me :devil:
 

Bardsandwarriors

Xena's boyfriend
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
100
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I can only surmise that once the extremities of the personalities have been worn down by the world that the differences in that mix make for an entertaining life.

Our debates and discussions were - as you say - entertaining and respectfully two-sided. Same with other INTJs I've known.

But with my brother, his tendency to lock himself away, and to treat people badly, thinking himself very superior, and to indulge in long-term selfish schemes - has - in my view - *given* him depression. He has suffered from clinical depression for a long time now.

When, occasionally, I treat someone harshly, and I feel a wave of depression come down over my eyes, it's a rare thing; but I know what it feels like. And I think that's what he has done to himself, so frequently, and with so much self-justification, that it has become permanent. So he is in his own death spiral, a consequence of his INTJ'ness, and now he lives alone with his victim mentality. When I visit or stay a while, he is welcoming. But after a while we get the death spiral, because I am in his space, accidentally upsetting his secret schemes and arrangements. So, uuhhh. I don't visit much, and nor does anyone else.

The other thing that happens now, is that when I try to engage him in positive conversation, he tries to damp down everything to his depressed level. If I make some wild exclamation, he will react with a raging nastiness because he hates that positivity. For him, the world is sh*t and he *knows* he is right, and cleverer, and I am an idiot, and .... *sigh*!
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Our debates and discussions were - as you say - entertaining and respectfully two-sided. Same with other INTJs I've known.

But with my brother, his tendency to lock himself away, and to treat people badly, thinking himself very superior, and to indulge in long-term selfish schemes - has - in my view - *given* him depression. He has suffered from clinical depression for a long time now.

When, occasionally, I treat someone harshly, and I feel a wave of depression come down over my eyes, it's a rare thing; but I know what it feels like. And I think that's what he has done to himself, so frequently, and with so much self-justification, that it has become permanent. So he is in his own death spiral, a consequence of his INTJ'ness, and now he lives alone with his victim mentality. When I visit or stay a while, he is welcoming. But after a while we get the death spiral, because I am in his space, accidentally upsetting his secret schemes and arrangements. So, uuhhh. I don't visit much, and nor does anyone else.

The other thing that happens now, is that when I try to engage him in positive conversation, he tries to damp down everything to his depressed level. If I make some wild exclamation, he will react with a raging nastiness because he hates that positivity. For him, the world is sh*t and he *knows* he is right, and cleverer, and I am an idiot, and .... *sigh*!
Sounds like a coping mechanism gone wrong to my amateur ears. Sounds like he started out by shutting out the world because it messed with his conceptions and now he can't let it back in again.

Personally I think that every NT needs an NF close by just to feel like part of the human race some days. A shame it didn't work out for your brother that way.
 

Bardsandwarriors

Xena's boyfriend
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
100
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Yeah, could be. I'm his closest brother and I don't know. Our mother doesn't know. No one knows, because he keeps it all locked up.

I suspect it is related to the NT ethic of stripping everything down its bare minimum, to reach the truths. His truths are often compelling. But he has stripped away the need to be nice to people he doesn't care for, the need for people at all(?), the need for this and that. What remains is a life hardly worth living, and nothing to satisfy some of the most basic social instincts (the ones which everyone has).

I wonder if living in a hidden lair near the North Pole would suit him.
 

BadOctopus

Suave y Fuerte
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
3,232
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I wonder if living in a hidden lair near the North Pole would suit him.
I like to say that I'd be perfectly content to be a hermit, as long as my cave had WiFi. But I'm not serious about it.

But [MENTION=70]Xander[/MENTION], I think you're right about NTs needing NFs. My ENFP best friend is one of the major reasons why I haven't turned my back on humanity. Even though sometimes I'd like to.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
234
MBTI Type
ENFP
I have an odd theory about the ENFP/INTJ relationship. First, I believe a functioning romantic relationship could work...or maybe I romanticized this unintentionally w/e. Anyways, I believe MBTI is a foundation for personalities, most people recognize this as well. It's a very useful tool if you don't use it for black and white thinking purposes. I have met many of INTJS and ENFPS particularly in the same friend group. We all knew each other in real life, but we gravitated towards each other more due to social media common interests. I strongly believe that INTJS and ENFPS need to see each other on social media or some form of online social interaction to truly attract each other. Real life interactions I believe can work out as well, but lets be honest I think the reason we are both so attracted to each other is because of our minds and thoughts. cliche as that sounds, I'm trying to be blunt to move on with my point.

Also I tend to think of certain ENFP stereotypes and INTJ stereotypes, and how I've seen both personality types with three main categories of sub personalities? (obviously not their real personalities, I just do not know how to word myself) Oh god, I sound like an idiot. But I think this could make sense...

Before I go along with my listing, I want to say I did a major project on MBTI in my High School for almost two and a half years. A lot of people were severely interested, and would come to discuss types with me. Along with faults and positive aspects of MBTI.

ENFPs I've encountered more than once: The cute and nerdy disney lovin' theater kid who is always paranoid and rather obnoxious.
The cynical dark humored ENFP. Is fairly intelligent, but has ego problems trying to deny emotions. Usually attempts to be artistic.
The sort of content ENFP who is mellow, responsible career life/irresponsible emotional choices. Ends up losing themselves in stressful situations, sexual, yet moralized. the worse comes out in stressful situations.

INTJS I've encountered more than once: (first off the confidence is always there, even when they doubt themselves)
The obvious INTJ who does well in school, shows interests in power, very strong quiet confidence. is cynical doesn't care much about social interactions. Doesn't care about emotion development really, narrow minded in emotional development. Probably will be fine because of this trait, but will over all miss out. Has the true few friends.
The artistic INTJ that comes across as a well developed ISFP ( I SEE THIS OFTEN) Likes hardcore music/pop punk??? also rap. Loves using their appearance to fool people. Has a well developed feeling side, BUT REFUSES TO BELIEVE IT. Loves to view social media as a form of comedy/amusment. Cynical, but see's the light in the dark. Doesn't have a strong self esteem as other INTJs would.
The open minded mild tempered INTJ. Likes conversations about fantasies and emotions because they feel so intrigued by the thought process behind it. Has emotional development, but can clearly distinguish rational and emotional thoughts. obviously more rational, is not overwhelmed by much...but almost consumed by a neurotic boredom. Natural zen, but not spiritual what so ever. Is confused/sort of enraged by spirituality. But, is still way more open minded then other INTJS. Finds joy in nature/ sufficient living/ also technological advancement. Biggest downfall is not willing to understand the difference between a random feeling and a natural emotional reaction.

OKAY, OKAY. I GET IT. I know these aren't really gender neutral, and kind of a narrow minded perspective. Also probably coming off very stupid in a way. Keep in mind I am 18, and there are many more male ENFPs and female INTJs in the world now. Numbers have probably changed for popularity within types. I have met 4 true INTJs who are/were my close friends. Two of them were girls, and true to their types. I also interviewed a lot of people in my school. A LOT of people had questions. I am horrible with my grammar/wording. I apologize. Also keeping the thought flow. I tend to jump on the ADD train and forget to come off. The reason I did more descriptions for INTJ sub personalities is for them to see my irrational theory, a little bit better. For I feel like ENFPs are highly aware of the sub personalities. ONCE AGAIN IT IS A FOUNDATION VIEW POINT. I AM NOT SAYING THE SUB PERSONALITY STEREOTYPES ARE THE REAL PERSONALITY, BUT INSTEAD LIKE A FOUNDATION.

my main point: I feel as if INTJ and ENFPs do not have the initial text book attraction because they are at different stages of development. I actually do believe it is a close to perfect pairing. All the stereotypes I listed involve development of; the mental, physical and emotional self within the INTJ and ENFP. I believe the INTJ and ENFP all have these aspects of the stereotypes in their foundations. For the attraction to work, they have to have a similar part of their emotional/physical/mental self they're both working on. this is were alike wants do help attract opposites.

I'm not going to list which stereotype is the emotional, physical or mental self. That question is purely up to you and your opinion to answer.

I apologize if I come off like a scatter brain and completely inaccurate. I thought it was worth a shot discussing.

On a personal note: I have only met INTJ friends I have my ups and downs with them. I think the main issue is trust. The best positive aspect is immense respect/loyalty. Trust issues are hard to really get into. We trust each other, but we don't at the same time...and I think it has to do with ENFPs unintentional double standards. Sorry we don't have well developed thinking lol.

I've only been head over heels for one person. He was a very unhealthy ENFP. I was also very unhealthy at the time too, but in extreme denial.

I AM MORE POSITIVE THAN I SEEM, TRUST ME?

ok ya.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
234
MBTI Type
ENFP
I also thought this might be a refreshing video for INTJS. I love this girls style, it would be so close to mine if I could think straight and didn't get way too hyped over colors... ALSO a lot of female INTJs I have met, have been some what like her. Well at least the ones that are my friends. Not saying you have to be this alternative looking artsy person, I just really like self expression. I find a bit of dramatic flair in a INTJs style?? to be extremely attractive. It just shows a part of their personality that they developed without the text book ENFP to help them. I'm not trying to be shallow, to me that is just a major accomplishment because they're asking to be judged for how they look. which is really surprising and out of their comfort zone. I see this happening more and more with my INTJ friends. it's F***ing cool.


yolo
 

1487610420

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
6,431
I like to say that I'd be perfectly content to be a hermit, as long as my cave had WiFi. But I'm not serious about it.

But [MENTION=70]Xander[/MENTION], I think you're right about NTs needing NFs. My ENFP best friend is one of the major reasons why I haven't turned my back on humanity. Even though sometimes I'd like to.

:cry:
 

Poki

New member
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
10,436
MBTI Type
STP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I have known several and they aren't really that great looking in from the outside. Neither side is fully satisfied and have to hold onto the little bit that does connect. The bending is finding a middle ground that goes against the essence of the other therefore it limits and puts a restraint on each others life.

My parents are enfp/intj pairing. They have been together for over 30 years. Are they happy, somewhat, have they adapted yes. Do I want there relationship, no, I want more. I want happier, I want better, I don't want either partner to have to give up things they really enjoy just to make it work.

My current gf was with an intj was she happy, no. But they stayed together off and on for 4-5 years. Everyone I met thanks me because she is so much happier now. They both tried to bend as it mentions on here to the point where neither was happy.

Can you make it work and not be utterly miserable, yes. Can you they make it last, yes. Is it the closest to perfect? No, it ends up as simply 2 people who care about each other, love each other, but have settled for the sake of finding a way to make things work.

Just my 2 cents, I would not want to be in this relationship if I were intj or enfp based on my observations.
 

BluRoses

New member
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
155
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
2w3
No. Friends, great friends, absolutely and I will always feel that way. There is no way on this earth I could have a relationship with one. They aren't changing and I'm certainly not changing. Unless things ran very parallel, only intersecting once in awhile I can only see the offended and butthurt ENFP and the smothered and irritated INTJ. That said, I am sure there are ENFP/INTJ pairs that do work but I've never seen one.

Basically this. My best friend since high-school (I'm in my 30's) is an INTJ and my past SO of multiple years is an ENFP. I know them both very well and I cannot imagine these two types getting along well except as friends. When kept at a slight distance they seem to appreciate each other, but if they were in a "relationship," it seems to me that ...well, what CeeCee said.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
What do you think about relationships between ENFPs and INTJs? I can’t think of a particular pairing that I’ve seen mentioned more. The focus of this is really on romantic relationships but it also makes sense to discuss your experience in situations where these two types interact in a significant way – such as friendship, at work, etc.

When it’s working – What are the joys and positive aspects of these relationships?
- How compatible do you think these two types are in general?
- Why are they attracted to each other?
- How to they compliment each other?
- How well do they understand each other and why?
- What are they like together raising children?

I think they work well...I think the judgement function sharings in the middle (Fi/Te) accounts for something. I'm attracted to Fi types, period. There's something about it that I'm drawn to and intrigued by. Even outside of the m/f romantic relationship, I've found that I have good relationships with dudes who are Fi types (ENFPs, ESFPs, and INFP).
But what makes the ENFPs special is that I'm able to talk to them about anything...and they roll with it. It's almost like nothing blows their mind. In my last relationship, with an ENFP, the thing that drew me to her was that we had the best conversations, and nothing I said seemed to lose her. It was great.
I think the ENFPs like INTJs, because, in a sense, we compliment them in that we give them focus and structure to their ideas. Not their overall lives, as an SJ would most likely, but give them some depth, refinement, and focus to their dreams and aspirations. Nothing is too outrageous to at least discuss, so when they're Ne spouting, our cool calm demeanor helps them.

I found that I did understand my ENFP very well. I don't read body language as a rule but if I'm interested in a person, I will study and learn them. So I got to learn my ENFP's body language and words used and all that and it helped me understand her.

When it’s not working – What are the challenges when two people of this type are in a relationship?
- What are some of the communication challenges they can have?
- What are the biggest frustrations between these two types?
- How can they take each other for granted?
- What happens with things “go wrong” between these two types?

I will come back and update this

Advice for couples – What recommendations do you have?
- What things should each type do to facilitate better communication?
- What advice do you have for each of the two types?
- If you are an ENFP, what advice do you have for the INTJs?
- If you are an INTJ, what advice would you have for the ENFPs?

I will comeback and update this
 

Hapyniss

New member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
110
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2w3
"I like to say that I'd be perfectly content to be a hermit, as long as my cave had WiFi. "

BadO - What is Wi and how does it balance Fi? :D
 
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