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  1. #11
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Instantly drawn to INTJs. Similarly drawn to ISTJs for friendships...

    I had a really good relationship with an INTJ woman long ago. I absolutely was crazy about her. It was great that she went right after me with no hesitation (we were actually roommates at the time). She said it was my exuberance and emotional honesty that drew her...and oddly enough, my wild mood swings. Those fascinated her. We could talk about anything and everything. I loved her coolness. Her decisiveness. How she seemed to see ten steps ahead of everything. I also loved the feeling of having "special access" to her. She was so reserved with others (she had no idea of how attractive this made her...you TJs!) and I loved how open and sweet she was with me. Like a different person. Just beautiful. We just had this super-easy acceptance of each other because it was very easy for us to see the best in each other. She was just so okay and calm with me and that felt so wonderful to me as an ENFP. She always has this look in her eye that said, "you're wonderful no matter how off the wall you are." It felt protective toward her--emotionally protective. We were very much into looking after/taking care of the other...not in the ways that I'm making it sound like.

    The downside...she could be really goddamn condescending. Rolling her eyes and saying "Oh ____." I hated that so much. *pat pat* Oh my cute little ENFP is upset! If I got more upset, she'd just smile her little cat smile and give me another pat. It could be really awful...I'd almost prefer an EXTJ harshness than this smug shit. But I could really flip out so... It wasn't good then but we usually got past such moments quickly. I just hated that it was because me letting it go. She didn't believe in apologizing...wrong? FTS. That really hurt.

    I have been very close friends with an INTJ for a very long time. She is just an amazing person. Understatement. I cannot really talk about my relationship with her or how I feel toward her...it's really beyond what I can express.

    INTJ men...that testing thing. Annoying and the deliberate temptation to fail just to see what happens...well, already know but just to bring it about. But this may be an enneagram thing more than an INTJ thing.

    Can the relationship work? Maybe. Won't lie...the attraction is there for me in a big way. The rest? Who can say? It's not going to fail or work just because it's an ENFP/INTJ pairing. It's going to work because the two people in it want it to, are willing to make the sacrifices to keep it together, and have their shit together enough to make it work.

  2. #12
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I should preface this with the fact that my best friend is ISTJ, my boyfriend is ISTP (well, was, I dunno what he says he is now lol), and that I really only know maybe 2 INTJs, and only 1 confirmed IRL.. I'll subside from discussing online INTJs because they're cheaters, they're never that extroverted irl.



    I think INTJs and ENFPs are absolutely compatible. I think it DOES take a bit more work not to turn the thing into a disaster quickly once the honeymoon phase is over, but if the ENFP can get passed that apathetic-seeming tone, and the INTJ can get over the pride and over-thinking of things and just clearly communicate more raw material, it's a great opposites-attract dynamic that can really balance each other out. INTJ comes out of their shell more, ENFP learns to tone it down and be less head-in-the-clouds, and both can get their feet on the ground. And the compatible intuitive nature still lets them communicate strongly without having to translate (something I find myself frequently doing with S types). I think that intuitive nature is really what seals the deal on the relationship. A weak P and weak J would help tremendously as well. But I have a trio of friends (ENFP, INFJ, INTJ, all male) and while I get along the best with the ENFP and we're definitely closer than the other two, I find more open communication lines with the INTJ, as in a slight sense of grounding that I just don't get from the other two. Something more level headed and (sometimes annoyingly) placid.



    The downsides are .. well.. Pretty much everything else.
    I find there is a sense of.. something to INTJs. Some people call it "mysterious". I call it secretive and lucrative. I know the INTJ I know hides so much shit from the world.. and pry as I might, I can't see any of it. It's a little distressing to be friends with someone such a long time and still know nothing about them.

    Similar to ISTP ime, SO much more space away from people is necessary. INFPs will space out, then come back and assault you with a bit of extroversion. ISTP seems to psyche themselves up for it a bit too.. but INTJs? It's like 'Hey.. sup..' after months of not talking. I don't find this bad or good..



    INTJ - Communicate. At all. Say something. Be blunt, and TRULY honest. Don't analyze and rationalize your honesty until it's so unrecognizable that your intuition fails you. Also recognize that you're not a know-it-all.. emotional common sense is STILL Common sense. It's a valid, smart thing. And you probably lack it. So when they're pissed at you.. it's probably for a REAL reason, not some made up one that certainly couldn't be your fault.
    ENFP - Learn to listen to the body language, and cues.. don't rely on the sources you're used to.. feel their need for space, and don't take that personally. Don't take things personally. If they communicate openly, you need to respect that by doing the same thing back. Don't hold back thinking they'll just magically know things.
    I see...

    On the topic of this thread, I have only met a few INTJ's online and they seem...nice...
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  3. #13
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    What @Redbone said about the INTJ woman you were with is very similar to my experience with an INTJ. There was a dynamic that he was the together, responsible one who knew better and I was the shot of life and kinda 'poor silly girl' who needed to be protected from myself and the world. It was comforting sometimes, but it was also irritating at others.

    Way more things factor in to whether relationships work or not, of course. But I do feel a very easy friendship with INTJs and ISTJs.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.
    Likes Redbone liked this post

  4. #14
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    I have only met a few INTJ's online and they seem...nice...

    When you place "nice" and "kind" on so high a pedestal, honesty gets kicked down there in there in the dirt with all the stuff you don't want to deal with. Which is why you answer with ...nice.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #15
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    I think what shits me so much about enfp's is the capacity for constant lying in an effort to grease the social wheels. I have such a hard time respecting anyone who lies to me in this manner. I don't trust it nor the person it comes from. It's just a tactic....I'll tell you what you want to hear so you will give me what I want. It's totally legit because it's the 'smart' thing to do in this situation.

    Not in my book. It's theft of the other person's confidence because you presented a false aspect in order to gain access to something they would not have given you, had your intentions been clear. Which naturally leads to the suspicion that you will now betray them since you had less than honest intentions in gaining it.
    Likes grey_beard liked this post

  6. #16
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chthonic View Post
    I think what shits me so much about enfp's is the capacity for constant lying in an effort to grease the social wheels. I have such a hard time respecting anyone who lies to me in this manner. I don't trust it nor the person it comes from. It's just a tactic....I'll tell you what you want to hear so you will give me what I want. It's totally legit because it's the 'smart' thing to do in this situation.

    Not in my book. It's theft of the other person's confidence because you presented a false aspect in order to gain access to something they would not have given you, had your intentions been clear. Which naturally leads to the suspicion that you will now betray them since you had less than honest intentions in gaining it.
    If you were hiding Jews from the Nazis, would you tell them the truth?
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  7. #17
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chthonic View Post
    I think what shits me so much about enfp's is the capacity for constant lying in an effort to grease the social wheels. I have such a hard time respecting anyone who lies to me in this manner. I don't trust it nor the person it comes from. It's just a tactic....I'll tell you what you want to hear so you will give me what I want. It's totally legit because it's the 'smart' thing to do in this situation.

    Not in my book. It's theft of the other person's confidence because you presented a false aspect in order to gain access to something they would not have given you, had your intentions been clear. Which naturally leads to the suspicion that you will now betray them since you had less than honest intentions in gaining it.
    The INTJ I know is a WAY better liar than I am. Not to say he's a dishonest person, but I think I'm a lot more candid and easy to read, if not for reasons of openness, then for a lack of ability to be vigilant and thoughtful all the time. He, on the other hand, is much tougher to read.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.
    Likes Starry, The Wailing Specter liked this post

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    If you were hiding Jews from the Nazis, would you tell them the truth?
    Tsk, tsk. You know very well MagicQwan there are no lives in danger here. That's not the situation of which I speak. I work with a lot of esfp/enfps both male and female. It's kind of endemic in my job. I'm talking about pretending to be your friend in order to get some juice as collateral for later. It's gotten to the point now where I simply do not trust anyone, because I have poor ability to detect real from fake in that situation. All smiling individuals are to me, smiling assassins. And people, pretty much lie whenever they can find benefit in doing so. My inability to see the rightness of lying as a social mechanism is what drives me to live in isolation.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    The INTJ I know is a WAY better liar than I am. Not to say he's a dishonest person, but I think I'm a lot more candid and easy to read, if not for reasons of openness, then for a lack of ability to be vigilant and thoughtful all the time. He, on the other hand, is much tougher to read.
    I would agree with this. INTJs have a better iron wall and are more naturally contained that stuff isn't likely to spill out as a consequence of normal interaction. What I find tricky, is telling the social lie from the malicious lie. They all appear the same to me, and unfortunately I don't view one as being inherently good while the other as inherently bad as many Fe users do. And I tend to think that if someone is entirely comfortable with one they won't hesitate with the other, because in my mind, they are both the same thing.

    It's also frustrating to me that I cannot turn to anyone for an honest opinion, because all opinions are offered with the objective of obtaining some kind of social reward. I can see it....I ask a question, the other person mentally calculates what the correct (most profitable) answer is going to be then delivers it. But they are not telling me what it is I actually wanted to know. Only what they think I wanted to hear, which ironically is exactly what I didn't want to hear at all.

  10. #20
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chthonic View Post
    Tsk, tsk. You know very well MagicQwan there are no lives in danger here. That's not the situation of which I speak. I work with a lot of esfp/enfps both male and female. It's kind of endemic in my job. I'm talking about pretending to be your friend in order to get some juice as collateral for later. It's gotten to the point now where I simply do not trust anyone, because I have poor ability to detect real from fake in that situation. All smiling individuals are to me, smiling assassins. And people, pretty much lie whenever they can find benefit in doing so. My inability to see the rightness of lying as a social mechanism is what drives me to live in isolation.
    I generally assume those around me to be honest and thus I try to be honest as well. I am as kind as I can be to everybody partly because of my ideal of selfless compassion, and partly because I believe that if I burn bridges with people, I may be stuck in an unfavorable position one day. That said, I make regular attempts to know people better and on a more personal level because I genuinely WANT friends. I find real friends hard to come by, though. At work, I just show this slightly positive and casual but unchanging persona to everybody 24/7. I am starting to get compliments from the occasional person on how honest and emotionally stable I am. I can't help but laugh on the inside when people call me "stable" and "happy-go-lucky," since I am so sensitive and prone to emotional extremes.

    The closest I come to an social lie is that I will withhold ideas and facts that might stir the pot. For example, this one lady came in around Christmas time talking about the "War on Christmas." I wanted to lecture her on several false points she made in order to educate her, but I averted my eyes and blushed instead.

    Also, I only just read your comment on how people only make comments for social reward. I am skeptical of positive feedback for the reason that I believe positive feedback is just a social convention. I make it a point to tell people my honest opinion if they ask if they look fat in something or not, followed with advice on how to make the look work.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Holland Code: AIS
    Date of Birth: March 15, 1996
    Gender: Male
    Political Stance: Libertarian Liberal (Arizona School/Strong BHL)
    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan
    Likes Chthonic liked this post

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