[sx] The 5 sx/sp

[peter pettishrooms]

Any forumgoers identify with this type? I suspect that I may be 5w4 sx/sp but I'm pretty new to Enneagram and would like to hear the input of 5w4's and 5w6's. How do you go against stereotypical Type 5 descriptions? How are your relationships affected?

From my understanding this makes a pretty contradictory type. On one hand I need lots of alone time to recharge, but in the presence of that one special person in my life, I can endure so much social interaction for hours or maybe even days at a time with that person. And they don't necessarily have to be a serious partner but a best friend will do. The ultimate goal in these relationships is to be able to feel comfortable feeling vulnerable around a person. To be able to strip down and expose all my flaws, insecurities, and feelings without worrying about someone's judgment in order to feel fulfilled in a relationship/friendship. Otherwise, I don't see the point of forming any relationships if I can't see the potential in them. Hence why I tend to be selective in my choices of who I let in.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I used to, but I think I had it wrong. I'm extremely, introverted. The SX would temper that introversion. I think the reason I used to think that was me going to 7 at disintegration.

 

[the state i am in]

Any forumgoers identify with this type? I suspect that I may be 5w4 sx/sp but I'm pretty new to Enneagram and would like to hear the input of 5w4's and 5w6's. How do you go against stereotypical Type 5 descriptions? How are your relationships affected?

From my understanding this makes a pretty contradictory type. On one hand I need lots of alone time to recharge, but in the presence of that one special person in my life, I can endure so much social interaction for hours or maybe even days at a time with that person. And they don't necessarily have to be a serious partner but a best friend will do. The ultimate goal in these relationships is to be able to feel comfortable feeling vulnerable around a person. To be able to strip down and expose all my flaws, insecurities, and feelings without worrying about someone's judgment in order to feel fulfilled in a relationship/friendship. Otherwise, I don't see the point of forming any relationships if I can't see the potential in them. Hence why I tend to be selective in my choices of who I let in.

To me, sx is just about intensification. I feel it connect to some e8 stuff, especially greed and lustfulness. It shows up in a possessiveness and desire for empowerment, as if I want to master control over verbalization so much, know what is needed to win/lead with the truth of what is actually going on, and secure different energy sources that help me accomplish goals. For me, the energy pattern of 5w4 is so intermittent, fussy, and thin. I love being able to make use of others energy to get charged and get things done. There's a possessiveness there too that wants those energies for myself, and I think the sx/sp push-pull can be directly connected with that. As a counter, trying to just give space and more space, diffuse conflict within myself, and get to a place relaxed enough to start listening to myself again, to concentrate/concentrate on my own presence, helps build boundaries that reinforce choice and responsibility.

With growth the past 5-10 years, I've learned how to let go of so much more, which has helped create more consistent energy. I'm not great with focus or with just pushing thru to get things done, but I have truly learned how to not just desire but to actually APPRECIATE, which helps build momentum and positive energy. It also helps do so in a way that can be shared--when truly appreciating help, it's easier to ask for it, because you give something better back than this limbless neediness. It also helps energize and stoke a deeper value of contribution, which helps me get out of my own way and work on making things that build not only more inner resources but outer ones that I can trust will help guide me along too, validating efforts but also building alliances that are more organic and healthful and rooted in principles that just feel so much more sustainable and steadying. A healthier quality of relationship, which is so important when ideas can suddenly shift and alternate possibilities/realities/ideas spring up that set fire to my sense of security. Gotta remember to water the plants, lest everything turn into a wasteland.

The more I learn to focus on getting better at concentrating thru feelings and navigating thru paths, the less I am clingy and the more trust I have in the process, as cliche and silly as that seems. It's just the way to do my best, and having that, possessing that, grows better things than possessing ideas or bodies/energies of others.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

With growth the past 5-10 years, I've learned how to let go of so much more, which has helped create more consistent energy. I'm not great with focus or with just pushing thru to get things done, but I have truly learned how to not just desire but to actually APPRECIATE, which helps build momentum and positive energy. It also helps do so in a way that can be shared--when truly appreciating help, it's easier to ask for it, because you give something better back than this limbless neediness. It also helps energize and stoke a deeper value of contribution, which helps me get out of my own way and work on making things that build not only more inner resources but outer ones that I can trust will help guide me along too, validating efforts but also building alliances that are more organic and healthful and rooted in principles that just feel so much more sustainable and steadying. A healthier quality of relationship, which is so important when ideas can suddenly shift and alternate possibilities/realities/ideas spring up that set fire to my sense of security. Gotta remember to water the plants, lest everything turn into a wasteland.

I changed my mind and decided I am sx/sp again.

With regards to my own growth, I think I've become less mistrustful, but I also expect less of people. I don't really pigeonhole people into roles so much, like, is this person a friend, a potential lover, an enemy? I just let things develop organically rather than trying to categorize everyone into static categories that aren't really static. I'm also a lot more suspicious of the idea that if I just find one missing piece, this will solve everything for me forever. I'm a little regretful of that because it reflects the death of a romantic side of me, but maybe it primes me for better success. I feel like I have no other option left to me but to go it alone, but along with that, there's the awareness that everyone else is doing that too, so maybe that's ok.

One thing I think I need that I don't currently have is a notion of something else I want from the world, and from life, that is entirely my own. I don't think I have that anymore, because my previous foundation was eroded. I'd kind of like it back, but I'm not sure that I can really put the genie back in the bottle. Right now I'm guided by the idea of different phases in life, and I'm embarking on a new journey, and while sometimes I feel sure that this is what I want, other times, I'm not so sure.

 

[OneLovelyAdventure]

Check out this link and scroll down about 3/4 of the way:
Type 5 - Enneagram

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, I identify much with the 5 sx/sp, including the list from OLA's post above.

I tend to go between remaining aloof/distant (if I feel like the relationship cannot meet my needs) or total immersion (if I sense it could). Looking for that deep intensity of connection, with secret sharing and total acceptance between both partners. I am very accepting of my partner if we have the connection, warts and all, but I cannot bear someone who blocks themselves off from me or lies to me... i.e., doesn't trust me enough to be forthright and honest about their light and dark spots. I am very open too about my own darkness and need someone who can accept it. Again, if I sense the relationship can't go as deep as I want or the person can't be trusted, I withdraw and don't really invest further.

I grew up in a religious environment + around a bunch of ISFJ folks, so I feel like I developed a sense of social propriety and expectations over time. When I was young, while I was polite, I would also blurt out things that people were like, "uh, that was inappropriate." Since I didn't want to make waves or hurt folks, I did learn to pay attention to how others might perceive me in general, but usually I just withdrew/didn't speak as openly in group settings; and I have found that I just don't care much about SO concerns... I have trouble investing in networks or maintaining casual relationships, and when I do they are unsatisfying. I just do it because it seems necessary in life. Usually I'm either alone or in some intense connection with someone, on those rare occasions I find someone who connects with me. I actually like people and find them interesting if they are being open/honest but just can't really maintain long contacts unless they are sharing some deep or meaningful things about themselves with me.... secret sharing.

So yes, all this:

Very similar to SP/SX, internal conflicts about relationships, need for independence/emotional expression, but SX/SP is more counter phobic/intense, will entertain more dark/nihilistic ideas that others don’t want to consider
Energy around the issue of boundaries
Make strong connections quickly/deeply, but if they either feel betrayed, feel overwhelmed, or feel that the connection isn’t serving their true needs, they will cut the connection and go cold
High standards for partners, need to be able to share their emotions without being judged
Oscillate between wanting intense connection with intimates and alone time/space
SO blindspot, not concerned with how others perceive them except intimates [SOME of this, but I feel I have worked hard to develop this a bit]
Don’t seem intense until engaged in a conversation they find interesting, then the intensity/emotion become apparent
Volatile, internal struggle, can have 8-like anger, can come out impulsively/forcefully

And a mix of the following SX and SP 5 traits:

Avarice expressed through ongoing search for a connection that will satisfy their need for an experience of the most perfect, safest and most satisfying idealized union
Often cannot find this idealized person
Search for the high ideal like SO, but in the realm of love
High standard, want ultimate mystical union, divine in human relationship, high exemplar of absolute love, also with friends or spiritual teacher
More intense, romantic, emotionally sensitive, suffers more, more 4ish, more overt desires than other 5’s internally, but still reserved on the outside
Inner world of ideation and utopian fantasies of finding the ideal love that may not exist in the human world, this search of unconditional love is the search for meaning in life
They want someone to tell all their secrets, trust is the basic issue, will test partners for trust and it’s hard to pass that test, “Does this intensity frighten you?”, want someone who’s not turned off by their strangeness
They are private people, but with the right person, they are open and accepting of others’ flaws and expect the same; trust very few people, but when they do they surrender completely
This ideal of trust and intimacy is hard to find, they often end up disappointed when they discover their partner is human, and isolate themselves out of fear of being hurt by others
Can sometimes relate to “emotional promiscuity,” ultimate contact with many people one at a time
If they click with a person/have chemistry, they can connect quickly, but still guarded in the face of a deep desire for intimacy
Focus on intimate moments, shared secrets, confidences
Passionate but may feel unworthy of the love they desire, want to connect, but feel socially inadequate so can suddenly disappear
Struggle with being present in the moment, store special moments for later review; when alone, they retrieve these memories and mentally review them over and over again, immerse themselves in nostalgia
Thrive on intensity and most comfortable expressing feelings in a physical/kinaesthetic manner
Can express themselves through art or conversations about psychology/literature
Share brief but deep/meaningful encounters with their absolute love, must fully surrender to them, can have long distance relationships and savour those few special moments, alternate between connection and long periods of isolation
Secret passions can feel overwhelming, fear losing themselves which leads to sadness/suffering
Conflict in holding that ideal, fear their own human imperfections might contaminate their love; they cope with this contradiction by keeping the love in their mind/imagination or expressing the love non-verbally with the body in a deep/intense/wordless connection
Strong sexuality provides relief from mental activity, is grounding, mix of imagination and sexuality can become dark/fetishistic, can be attracted to voyeurism/society’s underbelly
Keeping things a secret is exciting, enjoy sharing secrets/forbidden knowledge, made-up language with a partner, etc.
If MBTI Thinker, like to discuss logistics, science, mechanics, as a Feeler, literature, arts, philosophy-defined boundaries, isolation, introversion
External world seems hostile/inadequate/brutal, so the need to find shelter and survive within those walls, having everything they need inside
Learn to survive free of any external shocks or surprises
Difficulty expressing anger, communicate it passively through withdrawal or silence
They act covertly in secret so they don’t have to let their guard down
Desires are sublimated in specific interest/hobbies or erased, don’t want to be dependent on others
Avoid conflict, adapt to fit in and not be seen, observe how others act as a model and then camouflages, but can be resentful of having to fit in with others, however, they draw more attention to themselves by being too reserved
Only have attachments to a select few people/places
Might choose to share feelings with trusted few people, but are adverse to showing anger
Their warmth and humour can give superficial acquaintances the impression that a bond has been established
Fear of not being valued for their expertise
Panic if they don’t know the answer to something that pertains to their future resources
Self-reliant, rarely seek advice