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  1. #21
    Senior Member Psyclepath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    An Sx-first out of juice? U okay? D



    A couple of things from here to clarify Sx-first.

    ~ broadcasting, charisma, display (pouring out the energy) / think of animals doing the dance/spread/strut to attract the other gender

    - do this by bragging about my physical abilities. As having a mid-range Sx/Sp 1, that is part of the gut sphere, I tend not only be flashy/dominating intellectually but also competitive when it comes to physical exercise, such as dance (that now I'm back from). I managed to get the attention of an Sp/Sx seeming girl (dreamy eyes, lazy look, disinterested attitude to what's going on, present but not part of the crowd) at the dance by doing my 'feats.' Nobody else seemed to care to notice. But I don't display anything by dressing, I guess that's more of an image (heart) type of thing.

    ~ presence is the only source of choice. without presence we have no choice but to keep running the same ego programs. presence brings the gift and capacity to do something different
    ~ "edge" - exploration, pushing the envelope, risk. can involve aggression (the energy of hunting)

    - I'm told a LOT that the things I do or say appear to be unheard of, it strikes them very new, which at the same time makes them suspicious.

    and from here:

    Meh. That social description is dreadful. You can have dreadful social skills and still value the social instinct: if I had to pick from up there I'd sooner say sx/sp - but I'm convinced that self-preservation is my least valued instinct.

    And yeah, I'm a firm believer in presence. A person's presence can tell more about them than any of their actions.
    I am exploiting others as guinea pigs to further my understanding of typology.

    I'm a Ti-Ne. My MBTI is listed as ENTJ because from dichotomies alone, that's my best fit.

  2. #22
    Egad! No bondage! Obfuscate's Avatar
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    so i am sx/sp... i don't mind being the first to initiate anything in particular if i feel confident that my efforts will meet with success... i don't waste my time with maybe unless i feel a strong attraction to a particular course of action...

    examples of things that compel me despite a (moderate/high) chance of failure:
    humor (why not laugh, if it is all i can get from it?)
    frustration (possible subtypes: loneliness/boredom)
    defiance (i.e. being told i won't)
    testing (seeing if my gut is right)
    regret (the feeling that if i don't, i will hold it against myself)
    "The vanity of intelligence is that the intelligent man is often more committed to 'one-upping' his opponent than being truthful. When the idea of intelligence, rather than intelligence itself, becomes a staple, there is no wisdom in it."
    Criss Jami

    "When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion."
    "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving."
    Dale Carnegie
    Likes Psyclepath, Luv Deluxe liked this post

  3. #23
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    I often initiate but then I feel disappointed as I always feel the other is too shallow for me.

    Due to my socionic types, SEE : Disappointment. Due to his initiative and demanding nature he frequently feels disappointed with his loved ones: they turn out to be “not what they seemed to be”, not perceptive enough of his whims. The bottom line is that he needs a partner who is easy to adapt to without adapting at all (without changing his own nature). If such a partner is not nearby, he gets up to mischief in order to draw such a person’s attention.

    I suppose I'm very demanding with communication, I'm very detail oriented. I feel I'm opening myself and help others with that.
    But in the end I don't bear the lack of intimacy I'm craving for (sx subtype)

    As for text messages I say it frankly in the beginning of a relationship if it's not what I'm expecting. I have nothing against them as long as I feel the other is really interested in my true self.
    Quality against quantity. Which wasn't the case when I was younger (excitement, exploration, new meetings).
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  4. #24
    Member Neokortex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luv Deluxe View Post
    Well, like I said, I'm not really a big fan of phone calls. I prefer texting. And when I text someone, I don't pay attention to arbitrary rules like "wait three days!" or "give it time, make him wait after he texts you!" I just talk when I want to, and that seems to generate prompt responses which then turn into interesting conversation and/or flirtation if that's the nature of the beast.

    Your initial post described sensations of desperation, or feeling clingy, and that's specifically what I was responding to more than anything here. I don't relate to those feelings unless I've already forged a strong connection with someone and something's gone wrong.
    Yeah, you have a valid point there. I guess my clinginess comes from being a strong 6w7, instead a 7w6 like you are. I just like to have security, some kind of an insurance that I'll hear from her again before she decides to quit on me. Even if there's nothing for sure is on. The last girl, which inspired this thread, said that the coming Friday will be probably okay to meet up. On Thursday I was already angry for she did not call. On Friday, midday, she writes a message asking what time to meet up. I exploded. So we talked it through and I agreed that it's not her job to comfort me with assuring words but insisted that being late for Friday and tossing me an unapologetic message only is just not cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luv Deluxe View Post
    If the other party isn't getting back to me within a reasonable time frame, I assume they're either busy or uninterested - so I don't worry about it. I figure it makes sense to listen to your gut, don't apply pressure where it's not necessary, and move on. I've had plenty of friends who have struggled there, done the whole, "Why won't he call/text?!" thing, and I simply can't relate to that. I'm just not the type to wait by the phone, it's not in my nature.
    Definitely agree. I've moved on since, although for me it take a bit longer. 6s wouldn't be community builders if they didn't have that drive to account for people, to expect some stability. Since communities consist of all kinds of folks, keeping them together and having the need to account for such wide variety doesn't really come from one's emotions - because no one fits in every group. It rather comes from fear. Without that fear, that calculating, provisioning thinking there would be bigger chaos, I bet.

    What I assume, that you as having it easier to move on, perhaps don't plan ahead too much? Like long-term relationship-ish? Does that 7's carpe diem stereotype apply to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Luv Deluxe View Post
    To answer your question though, no, most guys are not turned off by the forwardness. If anything, most of them are pleasantly relieved if a little stunned. However, I've known of some men who are intimidated and put off by such traits. If those men are not attracted to me, I don't care. They're not my type, hence "just as well."

    Yeah, like I said. Need examples? Texting first, inviting someone to hang out, telling a friend I've got feelings for him, initiating the first kiss, initiating sex, giving the guy my number first or asking for his, asking him to be my boyfriend, flirting first, you name it.
    Are those people, uninhibited by you, of a considerable variety? Introverts, extroverts alike? If that's so, you don't sound as much a fierce Amazonian warrior. So about the examples... could you tell me 1... and the only case that was the most risky, when you were the most daring with a man, regarding initiation?

  5. #25
    Member Neokortex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyclepath View Post
    Meh. That social description is dreadful. You can have dreadful social skills and still value the social instinct: if I had to pick from up there I'd sooner say sx/sp - but I'm convinced that self-preservation is my least valued instinct.

    And yeah, I'm a firm believer in presence. A person's presence can tell more about them than any of their actions.
    Does the stuff I put in spoilers apply to you? I had social anxiety as well but it didn't keep me from letting my voice heard in groups, haha. That Sp/Sx-ish girl I danced with reminded me of another girl about whom I also thought the same. It's as if there's something keeping them from talking. They follow the crowd but are not exhibitionistic, don't interject themselves and break up the group dynamic. They're silent most of the time.

  6. #26
    Member Neokortex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maar View Post
    I think it is a general trait shared by sx-doms since we like to show off our ability to get into relationships, it shows that we're attractive/desirable.
    Oh. So you, as being engaged and all, are showing me how attractive/desirable are?

    I don't have pickup lines, I never plan what I'll say. There was a chat I was added to. I'm not gonna go into details but it was pretty much for broken and sad people. I noticed him some time after and saw a picture of him. I've added him to contacts and started talking with him about life, what we do daily etc. It escalated quickly from there because we shared together some painful life circumstances.
    Haha, weird. Sounds fairly counterintuitive, as my mother always used to tell me that no girls like depressed, whining, complaining guys. Pffh. It's just odd how much I forced myself out from the house, attending events, trying to socialize after the wasted years but only to not finding anybody and just getting these "success stories" of people finding the one online, in multiplayer video games. Like what the fu**??! And you say your guy was a depressed, unlucky fellow who happened to be lucky enough to have a woman inquiring about him, one who also happened to be attracted to his looks? Aha! I should've posted more photos of myself! Darn! Was it there anything more, though? More than the photograph? I guess by now you'd claim him being an sx-variant too. Was there any Sx in his chat general entries that got you hooked?

    Same question to you: aside from nailing this guy in the virtual space, what's the most risky stuff you ventured to do with men? Sexually? Engaging them? Leading them on? Initiating?

  7. #27
    Member Neokortex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I tap people on the shoulder with silly games and banter and i make sure to make myself memorable, especially with those that I want to get to know better. As a woman who likes to hunt, I tend to leave whack a guy over the head about 3-4 times, then I leave him alone. Most guys take it from there, ime
    Awww, so you're never direct about your feelings? Just poking some fun, light laughter but never allowing anything about your hunt and that particular guy having been your target? And if their personality turns out to match yours, then about the idea of inviting them for a really hot-hot coffee over to some place?

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Oh. So you, as being engaged and all, are showing me how attractive/desirable are?
    If you perceive it that way, sure. I mainly wrote about my relationship because it was related to the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Haha, weird. Sounds fairly counterintuitive, as my mother always used to tell me that no girls like depressed, whining, complaining guys.
    The only thing that applies to my partner is being depressed or rather actually being diagnosed with depression, so am I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    one who also happened to be attracted to his looks? Aha! I should've posted more photos of myself! Darn! Was it there anything more, though? More than the photograph? I guess by now you'd claim him being an sx-variant too. Was there any Sx in his chat general entries that got you hooked?
    Yes, I'm attracted to his looks. I noticed something distinctive about him. Every time he was talking it was really sincere, mature whereas the rest was just joking around/being clowns and I was just tired of immature guys. His stacking is sp/sx.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Same question to you: aside from nailing this guy in the virtual space, what's the most risky stuff you ventured to do with men? Sexually? Engaging them? Leading them on? Initiating?
    In my teenage years I engaged in sexual activities with other guys my age without protection. I'm lucky I didn't get pregnant at all. I guess I lead some guys on and then just cut off the contact brutally. Nothing interesting.

  9. #29
    Step into my office. Luv Deluxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Yeah, you have a valid point there. I guess my clinginess comes from being a strong 6w7, instead a 7w6 like you are. I just like to have security, some kind of an insurance that I'll hear from her again before she decides to quit on me. Even if there's nothing for sure is on. The last girl, which inspired this thread, said that the coming Friday will be probably okay to meet up. On Thursday I was already angry for she did not call. On Friday, midday, she writes a message asking what time to meet up. I exploded. So we talked it through and I agreed that it's not her job to comfort me with assuring words but insisted that being late for Friday and tossing me an unapologetic message only is just not cool.
    Hmm, was she late in getting back to you, as in you thought you'd be hanging out at a much earlier time in the day on Friday? Sometimes people are pretty casual about confirming hang-out dates, which I agree totally sucks - but at the same time, if she thought maybe you meant Friday evening, there's a possibility that she thought a few hours in advance would be sufficient time to set something up. That might just be a personality difference with regard to planning preferences.

    The absolute worst is when you think you've made plans with someone and they ditch out at the last minute - when they easily could have let you know much earlier. That one pisses me off the most. It's like, dude, NO PART OF MY DAY MUST GO TO WASTE. I could have allotted that time for something else. So rude, haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex
    Definitely agree. I've moved on since, although for me it take a bit longer. 6s wouldn't be community builders if they didn't have that drive to account for people, to expect some stability. Since communities consist of all kinds of folks, keeping them together and having the need to account for such wide variety doesn't really come from one's emotions - because no one fits in every group. It rather comes from fear. Without that fear, that calculating, provisioning thinking there would be bigger chaos, I bet.
    I have two 6w7 Sx-dom friends who are much, much more security-oriented in relationships than I am. They fit the one-on-one descriptions of Sx better, and I fit the intensity junkie descriptions better. It's pretty interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex
    What I assume, that you as having it easier to move on, perhaps don't plan ahead too much? Like long-term relationship-ish? Does that 7's carpe diem stereotype apply to you?
    Yes and no. It's more like my goals are a little different. I don't want to get married or have children, so that significantly affects my outlook and desires with regard to relationships. It matters so much less to me that I find someone with whom I can envision some kind of settled future like that, and therefore my head doesn't occupy that space. I also believe that when things happen organically, they're more authentic and will churn out much higher dividends in terms of happiness. Every time I hear about some dude whose girlfriend pressured him into an engagement, I experience a moment of anger/sadness on his behalf, and relief on mine - relief that I'll never have to deal with a situation like that.

    I do think that part of my ability to let go of things quickly is a combination of type 7 and Ni. The situation or detail that I'm hung up on deserves to be flushed out with some catharsis, but then I pick up everything and keep moving because I know that to hold onto it otherwise is useless - it's fat that needs to be trimmed off the bigger picture. I pay attention to the value of lessons and symbols, things like that, but I don't like to dwell on things that bring me down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex
    Are those people, uninhibited by you, of a considerable variety? Introverts, extroverts alike?
    The people with whom I successfully initiate contact, or the people who probably wouldn't be attracted to me? Of the guys I've known to like me, there have been a solid blend across the board. Not sure about the guys who feel uncomfortable around forward women, as that seems to be more a question of insecurity than one of extroversion/introversion. Some guys just prefer women who strongly adhere to gender roles; people like what they like, you know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex
    If that's so, you don't sound as much a fierce Amazonian warrior.
    Haha, well...I'm not trying to be an Amazonian warrior, or even to be perceived as "fierce." I'm just me. It's not like I go around, kicking down the doors to crowded rooms, announcing my presence by yelling, "WHO WANTS SOME?!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex
    So about the examples... could you tell me 1... and the only case that was the most risky, when you were the most daring with a man, regarding initiation?
    My SO and I have been together for three years, and it's probably the highest risk/highest reward situation I've been in (emotionally speaking). He's a lot like me, just a little more grounded and serious - kind of a "strong and silent" type until you really get to know him.

    We were friends first, but hadn't seen each other much since college. I was traveling through his part of the country one 4th of July weekend, so I asked him to hang out if he'd like - which he did, because hey, we were friends. However, I really felt like there was sexual interest there too. (Unlike much of what I've seen from others, I don't seem to have a "friend zone." I'm apparently willing to risk all things good and secure in a friendship if I think there's a chance we could improve it with nakedness.)

    After hanging out briefly that summer, I invited him to my city, where we finally hooked up. I later told him I loved him. I didn't feel much of a need to ask him to be my boyfriend but I had to, because I'd slipped up and answered affirmatively when a third party asked if we were together. So it was less of a, "Hey, um, so...do you wanna be my boyfriend?" and more of a, "So my jackass coworkers asked if we were a thing and I called you my boyfriend, hope that's cool with you." Pretending to be super casual even though my heart was in my throat, haha.

    It felt high stakes because it truly scared me when I realized how into this guy I was. I tried to avoid my feelings at first, but I'm glad that I just tackled them head-on. I wasn't disappointed.

    If you meant more of a physically risky, shouldn't-do-this-it's-stupid type of situation, I've got plenty of those stories too (they're just more superficial kinds of highs, like sexual games of chicken).
    AMERICAN TRASH
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  10. #30
    Irony at critical level Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Awww, so you're never direct about your feelings? Just poking some fun, light laughter but never allowing anything about your hunt and that particular guy having been your target? And if their personality turns out to match yours, then about the idea of inviting them for a really hot-hot coffee over to some place?
    Actions speak louder than words.

    Dont get me wrong, when the time is right, I'm all for professing feelings, but when you're first getting to know each other and want to indicate possible sexual interest? I prefer to just do that using bodylanguage - it's very suited toward that. Heck, I dont even do that consciously, it just grows organically. Tilt of the hips and head, seeking more attention/time together, a lingering touch....it all indicates what direction it is going in but nothing is guaranteed yet - you're just growing closer towards a potential sexual encounter, is all, but you're not tehre yet coz you're still exploring and collecting data.

    For me, that process is highly enjoyable, so why would I shortcut that or force it in any way - or make it fall flat on its face by stating facts or analyzing it to death before you've gathered all the intel on whether he's what you're looking for and had your fun?

    Fwiw, every guy who has ever hit on me and that Ive ever been interested in, (except the first guy I dated coz he was...wayyyy aggressive and i was wayyyy inexperienced), was chosen by me before he even hit on me. They often didnt know it, but just..positioning yourself so he can easily see you in the room. Locking eyes, then looking away shyly, then looking up again and holding his gaze juuuust a bit longer. Online, sending them a suggestive line, or a witty double entendre, then getting into a banter war. It's all most guys need to seek you out and chat you up

    I've had dense ones and not-interested ones, where you get more clear, of course.

    With those you find out along the way which is which (one compltely ignores you or smirks, the other has a 'deer in headlights' look on his face, usually, and responds readily to 'normal' interaction) so you can really safely clobber the dense ones with suggestive language - both verbal and non-verbal, to the point where they just completley blush and take it from there once it does hit home. Ive also taken the reigns when it was clear that a guy was inexperienced or unsure about a certain scenario or part of the road - and it makes them that much more endearing to me that they'd share that part of themselves with me. You're partners in this after all, why not rely on each other's experience and strengths?
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