[sx] Sx first, initiate first?

[Psyclepath]

An Sx-first out of juice? U okay? D



A couple of things from here to clarify Sx-first.

~ broadcasting, charisma, display (pouring out the energy) / think of animals doing the dance/spread/strut to attract the other gender

- do this by bragging about my physical abilities. As having a mid-range Sx/Sp 1, that is part of the gut sphere, I tend not only be flashy/dominating intellectually but also competitive when it comes to physical exercise, such as dance (that now I'm back from). I managed to get the attention of an Sp/Sx seeming girl (dreamy eyes, lazy look, disinterested attitude to what's going on, present but not part of the crowd) at the dance by doing my 'feats.' Nobody else seemed to care to notice. But I don't display anything by dressing, I guess that's more of an image (heart) type of thing.

~ presence is the only source of choice. without presence we have no choice but to keep running the same ego programs. presence brings the gift and capacity to do something different
~ "edge" - exploration, pushing the envelope, risk. can involve aggression (the energy of hunting)

- I'm told a LOT that the things I do or say appear to be unheard of, it strikes them very new, which at the same time makes them suspicious.

and from here:

Meh. That social description is dreadful. You can have dreadful social skills and still value the social instinct: if I had to pick from up there I'd sooner say sx/sp - but I'm convinced that self-preservation is my least valued instinct.

And yeah, I'm a firm believer in presence. A person's presence can tell more about them than any of their actions.

 

[Obfuscate]

so i am sx/sp... i don't mind being the first to initiate anything in particular if i feel confident that my efforts will meet with success... i don't waste my time with maybe unless i feel a strong attraction to a particular course of action...

examples of things that compel me despite a (moderate/high) chance of failure:
humor (why not laugh, if it is all i can get from it?)
frustration (possible subtypes: loneliness/boredom)
defiance (i.e. being told i won't)
testing (seeing if my gut is right)
regret (the feeling that if i don't, i will hold it against myself)

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I often initiate but then I feel disappointed as I always feel the other is too shallow for me.

Due to my socionic types, SEE : Disappointment. Due to his initiative and demanding nature he frequently feels disappointed with his loved ones: they turn out to be “not what they seemed to be”, not perceptive enough of his whims. The bottom line is that he needs a partner who is easy to adapt to without adapting at all (without changing his own nature). If such a partner is not nearby, he gets up to mischief in order to draw such a person’s attention.

I suppose I'm very demanding with communication, I'm very detail oriented. I feel I'm opening myself and help others with that.
But in the end I don't bear the lack of intimacy I'm craving for (sx subtype)

As for text messages I say it frankly in the beginning of a relationship if it's not what I'm expecting. I have nothing against them as long as I feel the other is really interested in my true self.
Quality against quantity. Which wasn't the case when I was younger (excitement, exploration, new meetings).

 

[Neokortex]

Well, like I said, I'm not really a big fan of phone calls. I prefer texting. And when I text someone, I don't pay attention to arbitrary rules like "wait three days!" or "give it time, make him wait after he texts you!" I just talk when I want to, and that seems to generate prompt responses which then turn into interesting conversation and/or flirtation if that's the nature of the beast.

Your initial post described sensations of desperation, or feeling clingy, and that's specifically what I was responding to more than anything here. I don't relate to those feelings unless I've already forged a strong connection with someone and something's gone wrong.

Yeah, you have a valid point there. I guess my clinginess comes from being a strong 6w7, instead a 7w6 like you are. I just like to have security, some kind of an insurance that I'll hear from her again before she decides to quit on me. Even if there's nothing for sure is on. The last girl, which inspired this thread, said that the coming Friday will be probably okay to meet up. On Thursday I was already angry for she did not call. On Friday, midday, she writes a message asking what time to meet up. I exploded. So we talked it through and I agreed that it's not her job to comfort me with assuring words but insisted that being late for Friday and tossing me an unapologetic message only is just not cool.

If the other party isn't getting back to me within a reasonable time frame, I assume they're either busy or uninterested - so I don't worry about it. I figure it makes sense to listen to your gut, don't apply pressure where it's not necessary, and move on. I've had plenty of friends who have struggled there, done the whole, "Why won't he call/text?!" thing, and I simply can't relate to that. I'm just not the type to wait by the phone, it's not in my nature.

Definitely agree. I've moved on since, although for me it take a bit longer. 6s wouldn't be community builders if they didn't have that drive to account for people, to expect some stability. Since communities consist of all kinds of folks, keeping them together and having the need to account for such wide variety doesn't really come from one's emotions - because no one fits in every group. It rather comes from fear. Without that fear, that calculating, provisioning thinking there would be bigger chaos, I bet.

What I assume, that you as having it easier to move on, perhaps don't plan ahead too much? Like long-term relationship-ish? Does that 7's carpe diem stereotype apply to you?

To answer your question though, no, most guys are not turned off by the forwardness. If anything, most of them are pleasantly relieved if a little stunned. However, I've known of some men who are intimidated and put off by such traits. If those men are not attracted to me, I don't care. They're not my type, hence "just as well."

Yeah, like I said. Need examples? Texting first, inviting someone to hang out, telling a friend I've got feelings for him, initiating the first kiss, initiating sex, giving the guy my number first or asking for his, asking him to be my boyfriend, flirting first, you name it.

Are those people, uninhibited by you, of a considerable variety? Introverts, extroverts alike? If that's so, you don't sound as much a fierce Amazonian warrior. So about the examples... could you tell me 1... and the only case that was the most risky, when you were the most daring with a man, regarding initiation?

 

[Neokortex]

Meh. That social description is dreadful. You can have dreadful social skills and still value the social instinct: if I had to pick from up there I'd sooner say sx/sp - but I'm convinced that self-preservation is my least valued instinct.

And yeah, I'm a firm believer in presence. A person's presence can tell more about them than any of their actions.

Does the stuff I put in spoilers apply to you? I had social anxiety as well but it didn't keep me from letting my voice heard in groups, haha. That Sp/Sx-ish girl I danced with reminded me of another girl about whom I also thought the same. It's as if there's something keeping them from talking. They follow the crowd but are not exhibitionistic, don't interject themselves and break up the group dynamic. They're silent most of the time.

 

[Neokortex]

I think it is a general trait shared by sx-doms since we like to show off our ability to get into relationships, it shows that we're attractive/desirable.

Oh. So you, as being engaged and all, are showing me how attractive/desirable are?

I don't have pickup lines, I never plan what I'll say. There was a chat I was added to. I'm not gonna go into details but it was pretty much for broken and sad people. I noticed him some time after and saw a picture of him. I've added him to contacts and started talking with him about life, what we do daily etc. It escalated quickly from there because we shared together some painful life circumstances.

Haha, weird. Sounds fairly counterintuitive, as my mother always used to tell me that no girls like depressed, whining, complaining guys. Pffh. It's just odd how much I forced myself out from the house, attending events, trying to socialize after the wasted years but only to not finding anybody and just getting these "success stories" of people finding the one online, in multiplayer video games. Like what the fu**??! And you say your guy was a depressed, unlucky fellow who happened to be lucky enough to have a woman inquiring about him, one who also happened to be attracted to his looks? Aha! I should've posted more photos of myself! Darn! Was it there anything more, though? More than the photograph? I guess by now you'd claim him being an sx-variant too. Was there any Sx in his chat general entries that got you hooked?

Same question to you: aside from nailing this guy in the virtual space, what's the most risky stuff you ventured to do with men? Sexually? Engaging them? Leading them on? Initiating?

 

[Neokortex]

I tap people on the shoulder with silly games and banter and i make sure to make myself memorable, especially with those that I want to get to know better. As a woman who likes to hunt, I tend to leave whack a guy over the head about 3-4 times, then I leave him alone. Most guys take it from there, ime

Awww, so you're never direct about your feelings? Just poking some fun, light laughter but never allowing anything about your hunt and that particular guy having been your target? And if their personality turns out to match yours, then about the idea of inviting them for a really hot-hot coffee over to some place?

 

[ebrietas]

Oh. So you, as being engaged and all, are showing me how attractive/desirable are?

If you perceive it that way, sure. I mainly wrote about my relationship because it was related to the thread.

Haha, weird. Sounds fairly counterintuitive, as my mother always used to tell me that no girls like depressed, whining, complaining guys.

The only thing that applies to my partner is being depressed or rather actually being diagnosed with depression, so am I.

one who also happened to be attracted to his looks? Aha! I should've posted more photos of myself! Darn! Was it there anything more, though? More than the photograph? I guess by now you'd claim him being an sx-variant too. Was there any Sx in his chat general entries that got you hooked?

Yes, I'm attracted to his looks. I noticed something distinctive about him. Every time he was talking it was really sincere, mature whereas the rest was just joking around/being clowns and I was just tired of immature guys. His stacking is sp/sx.

Same question to you: aside from nailing this guy in the virtual space, what's the most risky stuff you ventured to do with men? Sexually? Engaging them? Leading them on? Initiating?

In my teenage years I engaged in sexual activities with other guys my age without protection. I'm lucky I didn't get pregnant at all. I guess I lead some guys on and then just cut off the contact brutally. Nothing interesting.

 

[Luv Deluxe]

Yeah, you have a valid point there. I guess my clinginess comes from being a strong 6w7, instead a 7w6 like you are. I just like to have security, some kind of an insurance that I'll hear from her again before she decides to quit on me. Even if there's nothing for sure is on. The last girl, which inspired this thread, said that the coming Friday will be probably okay to meet up. On Thursday I was already angry for she did not call. On Friday, midday, she writes a message asking what time to meet up. I exploded. So we talked it through and I agreed that it's not her job to comfort me with assuring words but insisted that being late for Friday and tossing me an unapologetic message only is just not cool.

Hmm, was she late in getting back to you, as in you thought you'd be hanging out at a much earlier time in the day on Friday? Sometimes people are pretty casual about confirming hang-out dates, which I agree totally sucks - but at the same time, if she thought maybe you meant Friday evening, there's a possibility that she thought a few hours in advance would be sufficient time to set something up. That might just be a personality difference with regard to planning preferences.

The absolute worst is when you think you've made plans with someone and they ditch out at the last minute - when they easily could have let you know much earlier. That one pisses me off the most. It's like, dude, NO PART OF MY DAY MUST GO TO WASTE. I could have allotted that time for something else. So rude, haha.

Definitely agree. I've moved on since, although for me it take a bit longer. 6s wouldn't be community builders if they didn't have that drive to account for people, to expect some stability. Since communities consist of all kinds of folks, keeping them together and having the need to account for such wide variety doesn't really come from one's emotions - because no one fits in every group. It rather comes from fear. Without that fear, that calculating, provisioning thinking there would be bigger chaos, I bet.

I have two 6w7 Sx-dom friends who are much, much more security-oriented in relationships than I am. They fit the one-on-one descriptions of Sx better, and I fit the intensity junkie descriptions better. It's pretty interesting.

What I assume, that you as having it easier to move on, perhaps don't plan ahead too much? Like long-term relationship-ish? Does that 7's carpe diem stereotype apply to you?

Yes and no. It's more like my goals are a little different. I don't want to get married or have children, so that significantly affects my outlook and desires with regard to relationships. It matters so much less to me that I find someone with whom I can envision some kind of settled future like that, and therefore my head doesn't occupy that space. I also believe that when things happen organically, they're more authentic and will churn out much higher dividends in terms of happiness. Every time I hear about some dude whose girlfriend pressured him into an engagement, I experience a moment of anger/sadness on his behalf, and relief on mine - relief that I'll never have to deal with a situation like that.

I do think that part of my ability to let go of things quickly is a combination of type 7 and Ni. The situation or detail that I'm hung up on deserves to be flushed out with some catharsis, but then I pick up everything and keep moving because I know that to hold onto it otherwise is useless - it's fat that needs to be trimmed off the bigger picture. I pay attention to the value of lessons and symbols, things like that, but I don't like to dwell on things that bring me down.

Are those people, uninhibited by you, of a considerable variety? Introverts, extroverts alike?

The people with whom I successfully initiate contact, or the people who probably wouldn't be attracted to me? Of the guys I've known to like me, there have been a solid blend across the board. Not sure about the guys who feel uncomfortable around forward women, as that seems to be more a question of insecurity than one of extroversion/introversion. Some guys just prefer women who strongly adhere to gender roles; people like what they like, you know?

If that's so, you don't sound as much a fierce Amazonian warrior.

Haha, well...I'm not trying to be an Amazonian warrior, or even to be perceived as "fierce." I'm just me. It's not like I go around, kicking down the doors to crowded rooms, announcing my presence by yelling, "WHO WANTS SOME?!"

So about the examples... could you tell me 1... and the only case that was the most risky, when you were the most daring with a man, regarding initiation?

My SO and I have been together for three years, and it's probably the highest risk/highest reward situation I've been in (emotionally speaking). He's a lot like me, just a little more grounded and serious - kind of a "strong and silent" type until you really get to know him.

We were friends first, but hadn't seen each other much since college. I was traveling through his part of the country one 4th of July weekend, so I asked him to hang out if he'd like - which he did, because hey, we were friends. However, I really felt like there was sexual interest there too. (Unlike much of what I've seen from others, I don't seem to have a "friend zone." I'm apparently willing to risk all things good and secure in a friendship if I think there's a chance we could improve it with nakedness.)

After hanging out briefly that summer, I invited him to my city, where we finally hooked up. I later told him I loved him. I didn't feel much of a need to ask him to be my boyfriend but I had to, because I'd slipped up and answered affirmatively when a third party asked if we were together. So it was less of a, "Hey, um, so...do you wanna be my boyfriend?" and more of a, "So my jackass coworkers asked if we were a thing and I called you my boyfriend, hope that's cool with you." Pretending to be super casual even though my heart was in my throat, haha.

It felt high stakes because it truly scared me when I realized how into this guy I was. I tried to avoid my feelings at first, but I'm glad that I just tackled them head-on. I wasn't disappointed.

If you meant more of a physically risky, shouldn't-do-this-it's-stupid type of situation, I've got plenty of those stories too (they're just more superficial kinds of highs, like sexual games of chicken).

 

[Amargith]

Awww, so you're never direct about your feelings? Just poking some fun, light laughter but never allowing anything about your hunt and that particular guy having been your target? And if their personality turns out to match yours, then about the idea of inviting them for a really hot-hot coffee over to some place?

Actions speak louder than words.

Dont get me wrong, when the time is right, I'm all for professing feelings, but when you're first getting to know each other and want to indicate possible sexual interest? I prefer to just do that using bodylanguage - it's very suited toward that. Heck, I dont even do that consciously, it just grows organically. Tilt of the hips and head, seeking more attention/time together, a lingering touch....it all indicates what direction it is going in but nothing is guaranteed yet - you're just growing closer towards a potential sexual encounter, is all, but you're not tehre yet coz you're still exploring and collecting data.

For me, that process is highly enjoyable, so why would I shortcut that or force it in any way - or make it fall flat on its face by stating facts or analyzing it to death before you've gathered all the intel on whether he's what you're looking for and had your fun?

Fwiw, every guy who has ever hit on me and that Ive ever been interested in, (except the first guy I dated coz he was...wayyyy aggressive and i was wayyyy inexperienced), was chosen by me before he even hit on me. They often didnt know it, but just..positioning yourself so he can easily see you in the room. Locking eyes, then looking away shyly, then looking up again and holding his gaze juuuust a bit longer. Online, sending them a suggestive line, or a witty double entendre, then getting into a banter war. It's all most guys need to seek you out and chat you up

I've had dense ones and not-interested ones, where you get more clear, of course.

With those you find out along the way which is which (one compltely ignores you or smirks, the other has a 'deer in headlights' look on his face, usually, and responds readily to 'normal' interaction) so you can really safely clobber the dense ones with suggestive language - both verbal and non-verbal, to the point where they just completley blush and take it from there once it does hit home. Ive also taken the reigns when it was clear that a guy was inexperienced or unsure about a certain scenario or part of the road - and it makes them that much more endearing to me that they'd share that part of themselves with me. You're partners in this after all, why not rely on each other's experience and strengths?

 

[Neokortex]

Actions speak louder than words.

Now doesn't it? Well, from what you write, it's not something, eeehm, an Sx last cannot do? You're more careful, which is natural but there're some differences with Sx/Sp that suggest that you have Sx as secondary / "creative" instinct. At this point, at least.

Dont get me wrong, when the time is right, I'm all for professing feelings, but when you're first getting to know each other and want to indicate possible sexual interest?

For me, that process is highly enjoyable, so why would I shortcut that or force it in any way - or make it fall flat on its face by stating facts or analyzing it to death before you've gathered all the intel on whether he's what you're looking for and had your fun?

I approach girls by telling them right off the bat that I'm attracted to their exterior. My reason is the exact opposite of yours: I don't have fun. I sparked longer conversations earlier but after like 10 mins I turned a bit more explicit about my motivation. That's when they usually drop the line mentioning their current boyfriend. Then I asked myself: why waste my time beating around the bush? It falls flat only if your personality doesn't match theirs in the first place. Psychological sympathy ought to overcome sexual short outs. I believe the fun you're speaking of has something to do with your social subtype? As in teasing with role play, more emphasis on trying to emulate his type of personality by way of trying to figure it out? You see I'm not rooted anywhere, I tend to quickly move along as an unfaithful wanderer if there're no sparks around.

every guy who has ever hit on me and that Ive ever been interested in, was chosen by me before he even hit on me. They often didnt know it, but just..positioning yourself so he can easily see you in the room. Locking eyes, then looking away shyly, then looking up again and holding his gaze juuuust a bit longer. Online, sending them a suggestive line, or a witty double entendre, then getting into a banter war.(...)With those you find out along the way which is which (...) so you can really safely clobber the dense ones with suggestive language - both verbal and non-verbal, to the point where they just completley blush and take it from there once it does hit home.

From what u write, you seem to have been dealing with mostly unassuming guys? They don't sound Sx first. I immediately recognize interest and can discern that specific change in body language, vocal tone that gives it away. There was one girl, So/Sx, I prodded a bit afterwards and she admitted, although a bit self-abashed, to having had interest, even though she'd been with another guy at the time. My problem is that when I sense it I get nervous. I sense a certain lurking danger if I don't call out on it. My father used to beat me which made me more sensitive of the creature behind his temperament. Could be an Sp/Sx-type E6 thing but I feel safe only if I know you're consciously aware and in conscious control of your instinctual self.

It's all most guys need to seek you out and chat you up

You mean it as a tendency or a norm?
ENFPs, from what I've experienced, are good at approaching people. I could never decide, though, whether they were being only friendly or flirtatious + friendly. There's always something infantile in your flirtatiousness (and I guess in mine too) that makes it look more like a kid asking for candy. Or camaraderie of mischief. But not a stable, serious commitment. I've once followed up on a very playful, good willed, charming ENFP girl's signals but as I felt close to her boundaries after 1 innocent but a bit intimidating question, I let her be.

 

[Amargith]

Now doesn't it? Well, from what you write, it's not something, eeehm, an Sx last cannot do? You're more careful, which is natural but there're some differences with Sx/Sp that suggest that you have Sx as secondary / "creative" instinct. At this point, at least.


I approach girls by telling them right off the bat that I'm attracted to their exterior. My reason is the exact opposite of yours: I don't have fun. I sparked longer conversations earlier but after like 10 mins I turned a bit more explicit about my motivation. That's when they suddenly dropped the line mentioning their current boyfriend. Then I asked myself: why waste my time beating around the bush? It falls flat only if your personality doesn't match theirs in the first place. For chameleon (adaptive, Social) type of people this will not be obvious, only later on. They can keep playing because the other is also good at it, teasing with appearances, taking on masks, roles.

From what u write, you seem to have been dealing with mostly unassuming guys? They don't sound Sx first. I immediately recognize interest and can discern that specific change in body language, vocal tone that gives it away. There was one girl, So/Sx, I prodded a bit afterwards and she admitted, although a bit self-abashed, to having had interest, even though she'd been with another guy at the time. My problem is that when I sense it I get nervous. I sense a certain lurking danger if I don't call out on it. My father used to beat me which made me more sensitive of the creature behind his temperament. Could be an Sp/Sx-type E6 thing but I feel safe only if I know you're consciously aware and in conscious control of your instinctual self.
You mean it as a tendency or a norm?
ENFPs, from what I've experienced, are good at approaching people. I could never decide, though, whether they were being only friendly or flirtatious + friendly. There's always something infantile in your flirtatiousness (and I guess in mine too) that makes it look more like a kid asking for candy. Or camaraderie of mischief. But not a stable, serious commitment. I've once followed up on a very playful, good willed, charming ENFP girl's signals but I felt her boundaries close so after intimidating her a bit with 1 innocent but a bit more personal question, I let her be.

Grin.

True. Personally, i do that to just have some fun with you without committing, and without leading you on. The reason you cant tell is coz well, I dont *know* yet. I'm there to find out.

Remember, I dont *know* you. I may enjoy the initial rush you can give me as a fellow sx-dom, and oh, it is delicious. But it also fades and doesn't give me intel on who you are and whether we're compatible.

Now, if I were cruising for a simple sexual encounter - which I never did, I was always looking for a soulmate, not just a sex mate, but I could see myself doing that now if ever I was single again - I'd *still* need to get to know you a bit before I trust you with my body.

Im sorry you consider it a waste of time. It's like applying for jobs - you have to put in the time, and make a good impression at the interview. And even then, you may just not be the right candidate for the job - sorry. On rare occasions, you instantly know that you're a good match , or something has come up within the first minutes of your convo that assuages all your potential concerns and you hit it off instantly.

It just sounds like you're looking for a way to cut out all the fun there, AND all the necessary hard work. Life don't work that way, dude. Gotto earn it


I've hunted down my share of fellow sx-doms as well. It's more like a predator vs predator match

And interestingly, they're usually a lot more up for that kind of game, just for fun, or for stretching their legs and fine-tuning their skill set, ime. Granted, sx-sps have less patience and tend to be more direct - and I kind of like them that way. It makes it a fun challenge to keep them interested and keep the pressure on. Sp-sx's are great too as they tend to make you earn their attention up front, but once they flip, they're *all* in


Either way, maybe its my sx-so bias, but you're just rushing passed the good part, imho. Fwiw, I am attached these and I do make this clear up front, before getting down to the game, so that people have a chance to opt out. But I still enjoy the thrill of a good chase - even if it's just a practice round one.

 

[violet_crown]

And the girls? The supposedly "weaker sex?" Do you proclaim to be Sx-first when basically waiting for the guy to do the job? How do Sx-first women initiate if at all? What's with that addiction to "peak experiences," "intensity," "experimentation," "taking risks," "recklessness-" what's with all these "macho" qualities when it comes to women? Is there such thing as "gender****" at all?

Sounds like someone's having a rough time on tinder lol.

I'm fairly comfortable taking the initiative in most situations. It was actually something I had to unlearn in some regards as most guys don't like it when a girl asks them out. They seem to assume you're defective on some level or there's no chase. Not always but in many cases. But even now if I'm really interested, I'll approach because that's natural to me.

With respect to how much or how little I stay in touch with others as an sx-dom, I'm sx/sp. I seek out intensity and intimacy, but it's usually a fairly small circle that that is extended to as I tend to invest a high amount of attention/care/time into those relationships. Beyond that circle, I get accused fairly frequently of disappearing on people, which is not intended. It's simply that my interest after I've connected with those people I'm bonded with are work and self-improvement. Those things make me happy. Endless socializing doesn't.

It's even more dramatic if I'm in a relationship with someone. My desire to socialize widely if I'm not seeing someone is basically nil lol. I stick to my SO, my intimates beyond them and then just want to read, workout and sleep. I feel like sx/so have more of a need for a broader base of attention. They want to connect with everyone (or anyone, I guess) with the same intensity I usually reserve for a select few. It's a definite difference in mindset that impacts how most people will see and experience that individual as an sx-dom.

 

[Neokortex]

Hmm, was she late in getting back to you, as in you thought you'd be hanging out at a much earlier time in the day on Friday? Sometimes people are pretty casual about confirming hang-out dates, which I agree totally sucks - but at the same time, if she thought maybe you meant Friday evening, there's a possibility that she thought a few hours in advance would be sufficient time to set something up. That might just be a personality difference with regard to planning preferences.

Right, she admitted being very casual about it. We definitely had different standards and expectations but also a lot of differing inclinations as well. For me the effect of what I perceived as coming through late was doubled bc I had asked her to call - thus, it came across as double the negligence. Essentially a generational issue - she claimed it her conformism to her peers' way of negotiating. There was more there, though, I think, at some points I was late at getting back, and she expressed having been disappointed but when I did get through, she didn't reply, like playing the hard to get or sthing...

I have two 6w7 Sx-dom friends who are much, much more security-oriented in relationships than I am. They fit the one-on-one descriptions of Sx better, and I fit the intensity junkie descriptions better. It's pretty interesting. (...) Yes and no. It's more like my goals are a little different. I don't want to get married or have children, so that significantly affects my outlook and desires with regard to relationships. It matters so much less to me that I find someone with whom I can envision some kind of settled future like that

Uh-huh. There's a fine line there. I also express not believing in the institution of marriage, not wanting to marry and have children (my own childhood was screwed up enough) but when it comes to the bottom of it, I can't agree with the last sentence from up there. And still you're the one with a... what? 3 yr long relationship?? Guess the older you are, the longer they last...

I also believe that when things happen organically, they're more authentic and will churn out much higher dividends in terms of happiness. Every time I hear about some dude whose girlfriend pressured him into an engagement, I experience a moment of anger/sadness on his behalf, and relief on mine - relief that I'll never have to deal with a situation like that.

Sure, the more spontaneous, guileless, the better. You probably have never had to deal with overtly forced relationships. Which is also owed to extroversion and adaptability. Yesterday I talked about this with two guys, the boy said he has just a few friends bc he's straightforward a bit too much with his opinion, whereas the ESFP-ish (performer-type) girl said she keeps her opinions back. The mentioned other girl had said she didn't like me being to much "declarative," I state my opinions very strongly. I said my mother is a leader-type (E8), I got used to needing to be assertive. So when whole years pass without "organic" relationships forming, one starts to crave for at least just one - the one that will last.

If you meant more of a physically risky, shouldn't-do-this-it's-stupid type of situation, I've got plenty of those stories too (they're just more superficial kinds of highs, like sexual games of chicken).

Yea, I meant more physically risky stuff. About taking the initiative. I find confessions hard, as an Fi user, especially as a repressed Fi user, to be hard when you want it be heartfelt. To really pour out your emotions. A lot easier to just assemble a sentence and toss it to the other. But even harder it is to confess to a stranger... honestly: like "hey. I saw you across the street. I think... I don't know who you are and if we'll ever see each other again.. but I think you look gorgeous ... and that clumsiness in your movement can't help but suggest stronger a special warmth inside. of. you."

 

[Neokortex]

Sounds like someone's having a rough time on tinder lol.

I'm fairly comfortable taking the initiative in most situations. It was actually something I had to unlearn in some regards as most guys don't like it when a girl asks them out. They seem to assume you're defective on some level or there's no chase. Not always but in many cases. But even now if I'm really interested, I'll approach because that's natural to me.

With respect to how much or how little I stay in touch with others as an sx-dom, I'm sx/sp. I seek out intensity and intimacy, but it's usually a fairly small circle that that is extended to as I tend to invest a high amount of attention/care/time into those relationships. Beyond that circle, I get accused fairly frequently of disappearing on people, which is not intended. It's simply that my interest after I've connected with those people I'm bonded with are work and self-improvement. Those things make me happy. Endless socializing doesn't.

It's even more dramatic if I'm in a relationship with someone. My desire to socialize widely if I'm not seeing someone is basically nil lol. I stick to my SO, my intimates beyond them and then just want to read, workout and sleep. I feel like sx/so have more of a need for a broader base of attention. They want to connect with everyone (or anyone, I guess) with the same intensity I usually reserve for a select few. It's a definite difference in mindset that impacts how most people will see and experience that individual as an sx-dom.

Well tell us our story, then. I've never met any ENTJs that were like really into their small circles. I know one guy who's job takes up a lot of his time, then comes SO and whenever he's able to churn out some more time, meeting up with friends, sometimes throwing a party. And only after then come I. I've known him since elementary school. Went through all kinds of phases. I'd say he's more like an So/Sp and probably Sx/So in his gut center - meaning that he'd do his Casanova acts, taking the girl to the toilet at parties before, throwing his money out the window, reckless about his health, etc. We keep meeting up at times for 1on1s... although, lately I see him more as a plain So/Sp, realizing that I've never heard the child inside, have never seen him beyond his 3w2 facade.

 

[Neokortex]

Well tell us our story, then. I've never met any ENTJs IRL that matched Sx/Sp pattern. I know one guy who's job takes up a lot of his time, then comes SO and whenever he's able to churn out some more time, meeting up with friends, sometimes throwing a party. And only after then come I. I've known him since elementary school. Went through all kinds of phases. I'd say he's more like an So/Sp and probably Sx/So in his gut center - meaning that he'd do his Casanova acts, taking the girl to the toilet at parties before, throwing his money out the window, reckless about his health, etc. We keep meeting up at times for 1on1s... although, lately I see him more as a plain So/Sp, realizing that I've never heard the child inside, have never seen him beyond his 3w2 facade.

Sounds like someone's having a rough time on tinder lol.

Nope. I have a rough time getting direct answers from women. To somehow get this "Sx-dom" business straightened out regarding the female physiology/psychosexuality. Most use these labels only to advertise themselves and cater their low self confidence. I use them to tell people about my own defects.

It was actually something I had to unlearn in some regards as most guys don't like it when a girl asks them out. They seem to assume you're defective on some level or there's no chase. Not always but in many cases.

What about the cases when they liked it?

 

[Neokortex]

Grin.

True. Personally, i do that to just have some fun with you without committing, and without leading you on. The reason you cant tell is coz well, I dont *know* yet. I'm there to find out.

Remember, I dont *know* you. I may enjoy the initial rush you can give me as a fellow sx-dom, and oh, it is delicious. But it also fades and doesn't give me intel on who you are and whether we're compatible.

Now, if I were cruising for a simple sexual encounter - which I never did, I was always looking for a soulmate, not just a sex mate, but I could see myself doing that now if ever I was single again - I'd *still* need to get to know you a bit before I trust you with my body.

Im sorry you consider it a waste of time. It's like applying for jobs - you have to put in the time, and make a good impression at the interview. And even then, you may just not be the right candidate for the job - sorry. On rare occasions, you instantly know that you're a good match , or something has come up within the first minutes of your convo that assuages all your potential concerns and you hit it off instantly.

It just sounds like you're looking for a way to cut out all the fun there, AND all the necessary hard work. Life don't work that way, dude. Gotto earn it


I've hunted down my share of fellow sx-doms as well. It's more like a predator vs predator match

And interestingly, they're usually a lot more up for that kind of game, just for fun, or for stretching their legs and fine-tuning their skill set, ime. Granted, sx-sps have less patience and tend to be more direct - and I kind of like them that way. It makes it a fun challenge to keep them interested and keep the pressure on. Sp-sx's are great too as they tend to make you earn their attention up front, but once they flip, they're *all* in


Either way, maybe its my sx-so bias, but you're just rushing passed the good part, imho. Fwiw, I am attached these and I do make this clear up front, before getting down to the game, so that people have a chance to opt out. But I still enjoy the thrill of a good chase - even if it's just a practice round one.

It just sounds like you're looking for a way to cut out all the fun there, AND all the necessary hard work. Life don't work that way, dude. Gotto earn it

Well, darn it. D EjArendee was right when he outright stated that INFPs secretly want to be babied. In Socionics Erotic Attitudes, we're the "Childlike" types with the more likely match of the "Caring" types. I guess, the more introverted/less social someone is, the less the attention one wants from their group but more from one's intimates. That said, I like a good chase, if I'm not always the chaser. If it is reciprocated to the same extent. I'm not spilling over to the "caretaker" or "caregiver" role; secretly I want to be cared for but at the same time I believe (at this point in time) I can find the balance of give/take in a relationship. I may have bad karma but the women I usually come across somehow think that the other way around is to be taken for granted. Nevertheless, I did have fun time with two, three girls even by being the sole initiator. Still, even those relationships got a good kickstart at the first conversation, unlike all that mystification social subtypes tend to use (probably to boost their value?). You haven't written any concrete examples but if I may infer from your stance on this, you sound like you've been avoiding Sx penetration (by avoiding to get to know one head on). May be an Sx/Sp bias, though, where "Sp" stands for the "self" part and "Sx" for "penetration." Maybe So/Sx's, Sx/So's penetration is more about checking out what other masks the other can wear. Challenging the other in the social field.

 

[Amargith]

Well, darn it. D EjArendee was right when he outright stated that INFPs secretly want to be babied. In Socionics Erotic Attitudes, we're the "Childlike" types with the more likely match of the "Caring" types. I guess, the more introverted/less social someone is, the less the attention one wants from their group but more from one's intimates. That said, I like a good chase, if I'm not always the chaser. If it is reciprocated to the same extent. I'm not spilling over to the "caretaker" or "caregiver" role; secretly I want to be cared for but at the same time I believe (at this point in time) I can find the balance of give/take in a relationship. I may have bad karma but the women I usually come across somehow think that the other way around is to be taken for granted. Nevertheless, I did have fun time with two, three girls even by being the sole initiator. Still, even those relationships got a good kickstart at the first conversation, unlike all that mystification social subtypes tend to use (probably to boost their value?). You haven't written any concrete examples but if I may infer from your stance on this, you sound like you've been avoiding Sx penetration (by avoiding to get to know one head on). May be an Sx/Sp bias, though, where "Sp" stands for the "self" part and "Sx" for "penetration." Maybe So/Sx's, Sx/So's penetration is more about checking out what other masks the other can wear. Challenging the other in the social field.

It's part of the fun, is it not?

Direct and brutal is fun too - which is why i love sx-sps. And yes, I like to slow them down a bit, to ease us in a little more, and smooth things out a bit. But it can become a fun game if the other is up for it. I usually gauge how much patience and playtime the other party wants though and at some point, I do get serious and very clear - especially when I sense they need a decision or reassurance.

Fwiw, I have an INFP friend from school who..was so-sx, Id say. He had a habit of being adopted like a puppy from the pound by each one of his gfs and his now wife (INTJ sp-so). I mean..I've mastered the adorable kitty look to a T, ready to disarm any opponent with silliness but that man...his patented Bambi-eyes effect was something even I couldn't compete with.

Trust me, you boys come equipped with your own set of lethal weapons on this front

 

[1487610420]

ew, chase

 

[violet_crown]

Well tell us our story, then. I've never met any ENTJs IRL that matched Sx/Sp pattern.

Statistically, you're unlikely to meet all that many ENTJs, period. ENTJ femmes even less so. If you had, they were more than likely mistyped.

I know one guy who's job takes up a lot of his time, then comes SO and whenever he's able to churn out some more time, meeting up with friends, sometimes throwing a party. And only after then come I. I've known him since elementary school. Went through all kinds of phases. I'd say he's more like an So/Sp and probably Sx/So in his gut center - meaning that he'd do his Casanova acts, taking the girl to the toilet at parties before, throwing his money out the window, reckless about his health, etc. We keep meeting up at times for 1on1s... although, lately I see him more as a plain So/Sp, realizing that I've never heard the child inside, have never seen him beyond his 3w2 facade.

I have a pretty expansive network. I know a lot of people and have options socially. But even those are based on 1-1 relationships. I'll have, say, one strong tie to a social group and then a half dozen weaker ties within that group. They're people I'm friendly with, but they're not friends.

I have no clue what the deal with your friend is.

Nope. I have a rough time getting direct answers from women. To somehow get this "Sx-dom" business straightened out regarding the female physiology/psychosexuality. Most use these labels only to advertise themselves and cater their low self confidence. I use them to tell people about my own defects.

For me, all being an sx-dom means is that some people are interesting enough to me that I want them entirely. I want to know who they are, what makes them happy or sad, all the good and terrible things. I simply want them. It's a desire that's intense but uncomplicated. Sometimes it's directed towards something (like, I very much want to accomplish this thing or that) but usually it's more about someone.

What about the cases when they liked it?

Well, then they liked it and we had fun together lol. Pursue/not pursue isn't gospel. It's just depends.

I'm still unclear on what your actual question is. Is it more why are sx women not pursuing you specifically? Most girls I know who identify as sx-dom are pretty comfortable with initiative. You're kind of prickly, though. Prickly intellectual sorts usually tend to appeal to women who like the validation of a dude who only shows the squishy vulnerable bits to them on occasion.