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Thread: sp/sx or sp/so?

  1. #1
    Folie à Un Array Ghost's Avatar
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    Default sp/sx or sp/so?

    Hey. I know I'm a Self-preservation type, but every time I look at the instinctual stackings, I begin to wonder if mine is sp/so. I relate a little to sx- and so-second, as well as sx- and so-last. I figure I'm misunderstanding something about both of them.

    Anyone care to discuss the differences between the two stackings? For anyone who types as sx-last, what made you realize it wasn't your first or second instinct? What's a good resource for the Social variant that accounts for anti-social perspectives and/or introversion?

    I think my idea of Social and Extroverted Feeling are conflated, so I'd like help understanding the Social instinct on its own terms.
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  2. #2
    just hanging in limbo Array Smilephantomhive's Avatar
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    I typed myself sx last because when I read that one "You know you're sx first when" thread, I had no idea what they were talking about.
    "Avoid getting too preoccupied thinking about what you’re going to do, to actually do it."
    — Rachel Wolchin

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    Honeyed Water Array thoughtlost's Avatar
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    I do not know too much, so hopefully someone can come in and say legitimately useful stuff.

    But for now, this is what I think. I've noticed that 5s who are social-instinct first are more approachable. They definitely do not identify as people persons at all, but they are willing to share whatever insights/knowledge they have if they are sought out for it. I read some place that so 5s make good psychologists, not that other instinctual types of 5 can't be psychologists.

    edit:: the person I was thinking of when I typed this actually types as an sp/so... so. yea.
    You are so arbitrary.
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  4. #4
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    SX last for the following reasons:

    - I try to avoid intense experiences for the most part, being relatively conservative with my social life and opportunities in general.
    - It claims to know what it likes or wants.. and once it does, it puts all its energy and passion into achieving its goal, which is completely contrary to my personality. Figuring out my own needs and preferences is a bothersome task, and even then, I always reconsider them and am reluctant to pursue my dreams in case there may be an alternate, more suitable path.
    - I rarely bring up my own personal experiences in conversation, however powerful and life-changing they might have been to me. Also, nothing really ever emotionally moves me, as I am wary of all information that could be used to manipulate me (which is almost everything tbh).
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  5. #5
    4x9 Array cascadeco's Avatar
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    Instinct stackings and how they play out can really vary by enneagram type

    I suggest looking at this; e5 stackings are about halfway down the page
    https://runningfather.wordpress.com/...moonshine-net/


    Edit: Re OP and how presence of social instinct could jive with anti-social behavior or introversion, it's easy - social instinct can lead to hyper focus on social elements, social nuances between people, and whether you fit in or not, thus can make you way more self conscious, esp if it's so-dom, and out of self consciousness you can then isolate or withdraw. Kind of a counterphobic thing.
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  6. #6
    Folie à Un Array Ghost's Avatar
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    I find myself leaning toward sp/so more and more. I'm realizing my time isn't spent seeking intensity or deep connections. If those things come up, I can even be repulsed by them. In terms of interpersonal interactions, I prefer for things to be broader and shallower.

    Quoting @small.wonder from the Being so/sx thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    SP - closed off, needs to ensure (emotional) safety before proceeding. This manifests in a slightly different way for each core, but the theme maintains.
    • Sp/Sx - Need for protection/safety + depth of connection, need for intimacy and intensity. Lack of need to verbally contribute to a group dynamic.
    • Sp/So - Need for protection/safety + verbal contribution to a group dynamic. Lack of desire for depth, intense intimacy.
    (As a side note, I find your Self-preservation 5 description very relateable, small.wonder.)


    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    I've noticed that 5s who are social-instinct first are more approachable. They definitely do not identify as people persons at all, but they are willing to share whatever insights/knowledge they have if they are sought out for it. I read some place that so 5s make good psychologists, not that other instinctual types of 5 can't be psychologists.
    Definitely not so-first, but I relate to this. I wouldn't say I'm approachable except that once people begin interacting with me, my default is to shift into a disarming demeanor. I put up an amiable façade, joke with them, use positivity to keep them from drawing me into their problems or being combative with me. Back when I was questioning my core type, it made me consider Sp 6 because there's an element of charming them out of bothering me. I'm not so much looking for allies or protection as the easiest way to get out unscathed and unfettered.

    I do help people when they have questions, but it's not really a choice. It's automatic. My therapist says I'm very insightful when it comes to people and their motivations. She's only going off of my assessments of my family, so that seems narrow in scope. It's funny because I do end up with a lot of thoughts on why they are the way they are, but it's like I passively come to these conclusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Edit: Re OP and how presence of social instinct could jive with anti-social behavior or introversion, it's easy - social instinct can lead to hyper focus on social elements, social nuances between people, and whether you fit in or not, thus can make you way more self conscious, esp if it's so-dom, and out of self consciousness you can then isolate or withdraw. Kind of a counterphobic thing.
    I'm not sure about the hyper focus on social elements and nuances. That sort of stuff is not on my radar much, if at all. In fact, I find a lot of social issues and aspects to things to be very puzzling or boring. For example, the politics threads and "state of the forum" threads here bore me. Although, I should say the same for relationship advice threads or the times in Vent when people talk about their love lives. I tune that stuff out.

    BUT! I do relate to the bolded parts of that quote. I can't tell if that's because I have GAD or if there's more to it than that. I definitely have these moments where it's like I'm viewing myself from the third person and judging myself based on how I'm not acting "normal" enough.

    From @sulfit's thread about the ranges in each stacking, I relate to the descriptions of strongside sp/so, weakside sp/so (except for the bit about having a self-sacrificial quality), ascetic sp/sx, and a bit of binger sp/sx. Interestingly enough, I don't relate at all to the builder sp/so or the decadent sp/sx.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    Definitely not so-first, but I relate to this. I wouldn't say I'm approachable except that once people begin interacting with me, my default is to shift into a disarming demeanor. I put up an amiable façade, joke with them, use positivity to keep them from drawing me into their problems or being combative with me. Back when I was questioning my core type, it made me consider Sp 6 because there's an element of charming them out of bothering me. I'm not so much looking for allies or protection as the easiest way to get out unscathed and unfettered.
    What you describe of the way you interact with other people parallels this description of the social instinct:


    SO Instinct notes

    ~ ability to adapt behavior
    ~ beginning place of altruism (as animals became more complex, the young needing longer care, a need arose for an instinct that could override sp to ensure the survival of one's children even if one's own life goes)
    ~ soc is subjectively experienced as caring ("giving a damn")
    ~ play (for fun) (or flirting in case of romantic play)
    ~ acceptance, interested in who others really are
    ~ soc decides what we say "yes" vs. "no" to socially, it's how we read situations and people and decide where to invest
    ~ soc brings a certain humility because of the sense of interdependence. less overestimating the relative importance of one individual self
    ~ most communication is soc (except for territorial (sp) and mating (sx))
    ~ awareness of the other (compare with sx awareness of the energy between two people, soc brings awareness of the other as themselves, as a person in their own right) and of how one's self and the other are affecting each other
    ~ cited a study in which the biggest factor for longevity was friendship
    ~ bonds between species (e.g. humans and pets) are examples of soc instinct
    ~ one way of looking at all the major spiritual teachings are as an expansion of the soc instinct; ultimately, including all life within the soc instinct's movement toward win-win
    ~ under ego distortion, the soc instinct is involved in war, group dominance - though those are soc in combination with sp (survival/greed) and/or sx (competition). straight-up/undistorted soc instinct is always win-win.


    soc areas:

    ~ reading people and adapting behavior
    ➙ sp wants other stuff to adapt to the self; soc is willing to adapt self in light of others' needs
    as an example, suppose you feel the room is too hot and you see a thermostat on the wall. sp just turns down the thermostat, but soc gauges others' temperature - if everyone else in the room is dressed lightly, soc does not turn down the thermostat.

    ~ bonding, affiliating, communicating / creating connection
    ➙ attraction is sx, but creating and maintaining bonds/relationship is soc
    marriage is primarily soc

    ~ contribution and participation.
    ➙we're wired to contribute. regardless of stack, self-esteem suffers when we feel we have nothing to contribute or what we contribute isn't wanted or doesn't matter.
    ➙ valuing each others' contributions falls in the soc area as well.

    When soc is the blind spot:
    ~ opportunities to be with others are seen in terms of "what will it cost me". Can be a feeling of not caring, of being excessively selfish.
    ~ talking to self, may be really talking to self even when ostensibly talking to others, interrupting
    ~ always a feeling of not having made one's contribution even when one actually is contributing



    Another off the beaten path method for verifying your stacking would be to place your photographs next to these instinct face composites and compare them to sp/so and sp/sx images. It has worked for me many times when I was typing those I met at work and college and new roommates and had some doubts about their stack preferences.
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