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[so] How did we become So-first?

So-firsts: what are the dominant instincts of your parents?

  • Sx-first (both parents)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • So-first (both parents)

    Votes: 2 11.1%
  • Sp-first (both parents)

    Votes: 5 27.8%
  • Sx-first + So-first

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • So-first + Sp-first

    Votes: 8 44.4%
  • Sp-first + Sx-first

    Votes: 2 11.1%

  • Total voters
    18

small.wonder

So she did.
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
965
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
This is the second in a series of threads/polls exploring the parental origins of individuals of each instinctual preference.

I've recently had some really interesting and revealing conversations with friends and family around instincts. Specifically, I think I've hit on what made me prioritize Sx above So and Sp in my emotional hierarchy of needs (if you will). My own circumstances involve two Sp/Sx parents, both of which negated my needs for intimacy, in order to maintain their own first preferences of Self Preservation-- because my Sx needs were neglected, I fixated on them and overcompensated for the lack. This continued (and still does in my family) but developed me to be overly intense, direct and hungry for intimacy. Perhaps what's withheld from us growing up, or what we need most is what we place the most value and urgency on.

After creating a thread and poll about Sx-first parental origins, (and finding really interesting results) I wanted to cover So and Sp first as well. As a So-first individual, do you feel like you were deprived/wounded in your emotional need for social interaction, or the opportunity to contribute socially growing up? What did that experience look like? Feel free to share your own scenario of how you think your upbringing caused you to prefer So, regardless of what that looks like. :)

I'm also curious about the parental types of So-first people-- check out the poll to participate. Thanks!
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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Messages
19,129
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ESTJ
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sp/so
I didn't answer the poll because I'm not totally sure. However, I am 100% sure that both of my parents are either social-first or social-second.

I don't think woundedness made me social-first. I think my parents' social focus is what made me social-first. It feels hereditary. Like we were on the same wavelength from the beginning. Can't say the same about being sexual-second. I think any sx-style "merging" has been independent of what I've observed my parents doing.
 

HongDou

navigating
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Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
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ENFP
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so/sx
Out of all 3 of the instincts I'm most sure I'm so, and I think it comes from a kind of rebellious attitude I had and still have towards my sp/sx father. I resented how he only concerned himself with survival and work and not honoring his passions. Over time I came to realize that what he does in his work actually is one of his passions (although he would not care to admit it himself) after observing how apathetic and monotone he is in his normal everyday life in comparison to how fired up and energized he is on a conference call but I still never understood how he went about his social life which was not going about it at all.

He doesn't keep in touch with his family even though they've never had a falling out - it's a weird concept to me. I see my mom's side of the family quite a few times throughout the year while I feel like he only sees his family once every few years or so. I've actually only met a few family members from his side and it was when I was a kid so I only remember their pet parrot lol. He also makes contacts but once they're physically distant from each other he never stays in touch so in reality he doesn't really have any friends. He's very sp/sx in the sense that my mom and I are enough for him, but it's very different for us.

I probably also didn't want to become like my dad because of how much my mom complained about those qualities to me. She tested as sx/so and I used to think she was so/sp but now I see her as so/sx much more. My dad probably isn't the healthiest sp/sx and can get mad when she goes out to socialize rather than spend the night at home with him. Not that they do anything special other than just sit around and kind of talk with each other in small bursts, but I guess my dad just doesn't like not having all of her focus on him. She feels very constricted in this sense and probably because of it I have a deep need for someone who is "socially competent" in the sense they we both have our own lives and can handle ourselves in social situations so there's no unhealthy dependency created between us. Even as a kid my mother would complain to me about how my dad has no friends and doesn't get out of the house much as a result. It made me realize that life isn't fun or worth living if you dedicate your time to the mundane details of life.

Outside of instinctual reasons, I think I might have become so-first due to the family dynamic. I'm an only child so I already got a lot of attention from both of my parents who had to struggle to make something of themselves giving me more opportunities than they had when they were young. But because I never had a sibling I always detested the fact that I would always be doing things with my family rather than my peers who were actually at the same stages of development I was. For that reason I prioritize making connections and contacts with others particularly because 1) I don't like to do things with my parents because it feels mundane and 2) doing things with my parents already makes me feel alone, so I'd rather have fun with a group of friends instead.

And that's it! :D

Edit: haha this is so much in contrast with [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]. Maybe it's a difference in internalizing parenting between NF/SPs and SJs.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Edit: haha this is so much in contrast with [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]. Maybe it's a difference in internalizing parenting between NF/SPs and SJs.
I dunno, I could go for hours about how my parents made me 1w2/173. But my instinctual variants feel so -- hate to say it -- instinctual, that I feel the same way about them as I feel about my MBTI type. I think I had them right from the get-go. I acted ESTJ from as soon as I could talk, and I was social (in the Enneagram sense) from very early as well.
 

small.wonder

So she did.
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
965
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Thanks both of you! [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]

It's true that I think there are differences. I even said in the Sx-first version of this thread, that I've long noticed a pattern of 1's specifically taking after their parents more than some other types-- that's not to say other types don't, I just know (and have been able to observe and deeply interview) a heck ton of 1's. It's why I'm posting these threads, because I want to know more-- and EJCC, your experience does sound congruent with that (once haphazard) theory. Of course, there are types that are more likely to conflict with their parents (I think 4, 5 and 8 specifically), and the Sx-first poll reflected heavily that Sx-firsts largely do not have the same instinctual preferences as their parents. The only 1 I know who is totally opposite first instincts from her parents, is Sx-first. It doesn't make for fact, or concrete or anything, but is a really fascinating pattern so far. :)
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
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Messages
19,129
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ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Thanks both of you! [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]

It's true that I think there are differences. I even said in the Sx-first version of this thread, that I've long noticed a pattern of 1's specifically taking after their parents more than some other types-- that's not to say other types don't, I just know (and have been able to observe and deeply interview) a heck ton of 1's. It's why I'm posting these threads, because I want to know more-- and EJCC, your experience does sound congruent with that (once haphazard) theory. Of course, there are types that are more likely to conflict with their parents (I think 4, 5 and 8 specifically), and the Sx-first poll reflected heavily that Sx-firsts largely do not have the same instinctual preferences as their parents. The only 1 I know who is totally opposite first instincts from her parents, is Sx-first. It doesn't make for fact, or concrete or anything, but is a really fascinating pattern so far. :)
It's strange, because you'd think 1 parents would be more likely to raise rebellious children. Maybe it depends on whether the children are people-pleasers who care a lot about being "good kids" -- and whether the 1 parents act as effective role models to the children.
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
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6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I dunno, I could go for hours about how my parents made me 1w2/173. But my instinctual variants feel so -- hate to say it -- instinctual, that I feel the same way about them as I feel about my MBTI type. I think I had them right from the get-go. I acted ESTJ from as soon as I could talk, and I was social (in the Enneagram sense) from very early as well.

Thanks both of you! [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] and [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]

It's true that I think there are differences. I even said in the Sx-first version of this thread, that I've long noticed a pattern of 1's specifically taking after their parents more than some other types-- that's not to say other types don't, I just know (and have been able to observe and deeply interview) a heck ton of 1's. It's why I'm posting these threads, because I want to know more-- and EJCC, your experience does sound congruent with that (once haphazard) theory. Of course, there are types that are more likely to conflict with their parents (I think 4, 5 and 8 specifically), and the Sx-first poll reflected heavily that Sx-firsts largely do not have the same instinctual preferences as their parents. The only 1 I know who is totally opposite first instincts from her parents, is Sx-first. It doesn't make for fact, or concrete or anything, but is a really fascinating pattern so far. :)

Oooh good point. :D I'm close family friends with an ISTJ 1w9 sp/so and he emulates his father a lot and has even admitted in doing so both intentionally and unintentionally.

I think a lot of people perceive me as being ExFJ due to being so (and 2-fixed but that's another story). I know some have said the same about EJCC and I think it might be because so internalizes whatever the person sees as the ideal communication style to connect with others. It might be on a masculine/feminine axis as well as most of the friends I made after transitioning from homeschool to public high school were girly girls, while I know an ESFJ 2w3 so/sx guy who appears very masculine and thrill-seeking in an ESxP 7ish probably because so saw that as the ideal way to make friends. It's not until you look at his motivations and cognition you begin to realize he's that type underneath. And it makes sense since I'm pretty sure Jung said Fe was more "female" and Se was more "male". Oops, he said Ne was feminine not Fe.

Although [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] told me that as I get more and more mature it'll be harder to hide the "crazy" Pe impulses and she's been right so far so she could very well also be right in that I'm secretly sx/so. :sherlock:

It's strange, because you'd think 1 parents would be more likely to raise rebellious children. Maybe it depends on whether the children are people-pleasers who care a lot about being "good kids" -- and whether the 1 parents act as effective role models to the children.

Well there is that parenting style thing [MENTION=22067]riva[/MENTION] posted a while ago. I think Active style parenting made a Gut type child, so if you were a Responsive/people-pleaser child it would make sense to come out as a 1, while other Active children would come out as a more rebellious 8.
 

fetus

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Just warning you: I misvoted! Both my parents (I think) are sp-first. Dad probably sp/sx and Mom sp/so.
 

DreamBeliever

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Mar 2, 2015
Messages
776
Not to complicate things here, but does it change things if your parents aren't who you live with/grew up with? I was just wondering, because my grandparents are who I live with/who raised me. I'm also super close to one of my uncle's, who most people usually mistake as my dad. Wow, my life is complicated. lol I would say that my mom could easily be an sp/sx (& she's an ISTP & probably a type 6). My grandma is probably an ESTJ type 8 so/sp. My grandpa is most definitely an ISFJ type 1w2 (or 2w1) sp/so. My uncle's for sure an ENFP type 9, I'd venture 9w8 sx/so. Not sure on my dad for instinctual variant, but he's an INTJ type 5, I believe.
 

Lark

Active member
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Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
I need to read up on enneagram, I mistook this thread topic for a discussion of how people with iNtuitive traits to become more Sensing, which I think would be a great topic for a thread.
 

cascadeco

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Messages
9,083
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INFJ
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Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Well, like I posted in the sx thread, I think a big part of my so awareness and prioritization was my wanting to do my utmost not to be like my sp/sx mother, who embarrassed me in public or social settings growing up due to her being oblivious to other peoples' body language and social dynamics in general. So I had a strong desire to not be like her. (am not saying I don't have some similar issues, as maybe I do, but I'm saying via observation I saw this stuff unfold) Also, my family was for the most part very socially isolated and closed off, and that always bothered me to a degree, and I felt I was 'stunted' and lacking in those skills and awareness growing up. So via observation and preoccupation with that I think I became a little hyper aware of social stuff and relationships as a result. (fwiw my dad is either an sp/so or so/sp, but, I am of a family of all introverts)

(Also, some context, there was never a lacking in sp elements, I felt 100% secure on a tangible safety and provision level while growing up. Social element was very much lacking, and to maybe an equal degree, sx intimacy and rawness was lacking, though, social was maybe felt stronger by me)
 

Lexicon

Temporal Mechanic
Staff member
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JINX
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sp/sx
Not sure why I'm tagged for this thread..

As an so-last, I'll just lurk, I guess. :popc1:
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
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sp/so
Returning to this thread because I've been thinking about my parents' instinctual stackings, and I'm almost positive both parents are social-first. I think my mom is 1w2 so/sx like I am, and I'm almost positive that my dad is 5w6 so/sp. He fits the so/sp "politician" stereotype VERY well, and it explains why he's so comfortable spending so much of his time in inferior-Fe mode -- he can detach and see social situations from a structural perspective, per the Ocean Moonshine description of e5 so/sp.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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I am an e1 so/sx. I think that I take after my mother, who is also (I believe) an e1 social first. She is the one in the family that I have always identified most strongly with and wanted to be like. She is more outspoken than I am (ENFJ instead of INFJ) and probably more forcefully determined about some things, but we share a lot of similar traits (to the point that my siblings and nieces and nephews kind of treat us as interchangeable entities). However, I think at least as early as pre-school, I exhibited so first traits. I don't think it came out of childhood wounds, so much as accepting my mother as the model for how to interact.
 

Kas

Fabula rasa
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Messages
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No I don't think so. I had plenty opportunities to hang with my peers and to contribute. Maybe I was a bit in the shadow of my sister. She is very charismatic.

My mother is 1w2 so/sp and my father is 6w5 probably sp/sx, maybe sp/so...
 

Kasper

Diabolical
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May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
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ENTP
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9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
As a So-first individual, do you feel like you were deprived/wounded in your emotional need for social interaction, or the opportunity to contribute socially growing up? What did that experience look like?

No, quite the opposite...

I don't think woundedness made me social-first. I think my parents' social focus is what made me social-first.

^^ That is more accurate for me.

I believe my mother is So dom, my father is likely a Sp dom, value on Social things were an every day part of my family as pushed by my mother, and the extended community I was in, I was expected to be aware of interconnectedness, etiquette, inclusion, groups etc, being around large groups of familiar people was typical.
 

HongDou

navigating
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so/sx
*sees [MENTION=24824]Kas[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4324]Kasper[/MENTION] posting next to each other* :shocking: it's like Pokemon evolution!
 

Kas

Fabula rasa
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*sees [MENTION=24824]Kas[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4324]Kasper[/MENTION] posting next to each other* :shocking: it's like Pokemon evolution!

Am I being compared to a pokemon? Hope I will at least have a superpower...


It may be relevant that my sister ( having completely different temper and personality) is so/sx too and we spent much more time with mother.
 

Haven

Blind Guardian
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My parents are all sp first and growing up they were very selective with who they hung out with and it was usually based on some kind of business/professional relationship. That is, if they even had anyone around in the first place, because their social circles were very small/non-existent. Thus, it was always up to me to reach out and meet people.

This, plus the fact that we moved around a lot and I never had a stable house life or community life, and I'd always be the outsider, wherever I went.

So I dunno, was my instinct an adaptation to the complex, constantly shifting, and often hostile social environments I was constantly thrown into?
 

thoughtlost

Honeyed Water
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I don't want to go to bed quite yet and I was browsing through this thread and something someone said made me see my situation in a more clear way.

I always felt like the outsider in my family because I think I was the most outwardly social out of the people I regarded as authority figures (so my parents and the older siblings). The extreme authority figure was my father and he was strongly sp (5w6). I think he enforces the energy in the household. Therefore, I think we were expected to be studious, quiet and obedient. My father focuses on doing what you need to do in society to be secure. It was easy for my two sisters to fit the mold, it seemed. However, that's not my natural state although I tried to make myself fit into that mold when I was around them. My older siblings didn't seem to crave being around others and were very subdued when I was in elementary/middle/high school (one of them may be sp/so and the other... idk). We moved around quite often, but compared to my older siblings, I had an easier time making friends and I would prefer to hang out with friends instead of staying home to do my homework. When I was at home, my older siblings would either be sleeping, studying, or just handling more practical issues such as cleaning whereas I would be goofing off on the Internet (I was really into astrology as a kid), reading fictional books, or daydreaming. My goodness, I was such a night owl because I loved staying up late to talk to someone or browse the Internet for interesting things. This isn't to say that I didn't try to be a studious kid like them... I just always had this element of daydreaminess to me that I didn't see in my siblings. If my siblings and I ever attended the same school I would always feel conflicted and embarrassed because I would have to restrain my natural energy because I was so different from the family expectations ...yet I was in my more natural element being away from home. So I didn't know what to do.


Teachers always thought I was such a quiet and shy thing... but I really am not. I was naturally quite energetic and I expressed myself quite loudly in some ways, but I was just embarrassed by my natural energy and would try to hide it.

I think that this effects me to this day because I don't at all feel tied to my family. In fact, I go llloooonnnggg periods of time without contacting them. When I say long... I mean even my current roommate suggests that I call them so they know I am alive. We're on good terms, but there is always an aspect of myself that I hide from them because I cannot be my true self around them. I care for them and want what's best for them... but I wish I can break free from them so I can just be myself and I hate that I am genetically tied to them lol.
 
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