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  1. #1
    Member Turtle's Avatar
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    Default What is the difference between so/sp and sp/so?

    I have recently realized that my knowledge of the social instinct was a little bit inaccurate, and that I am actually a sp/sx and not a so/sx. This makes me wonder if my boyfriend is a sp/so instead of the so/sp that I initially typed him as. He is an ENTJ, and a 3w4. I am an INFP, and either a 9w1 or a 6w7.

    When I first met him, I thought that he was an introvert, because he was so guarded and reserved in demeanor. His fear that he is too 'boring' is an insecurity of his. He isn't "adaptable" like other 3s, and remains consistently poised, formal, and mature, with an intellectual superiority. He is a "made for the workplace" kind of guy, and his social life can struggle because he puts work ahead of everything. He tests as a 1w9 on enneagram tests, though he says he doesn't identify with 1w9 and identifies with 3w4. He is pretty tactful and could probably make a good politician, and doesn't seem to have problems or insecurities in social situations (though that is probably his 3 mask). He feels lonely when nobody else is around, though he doesn't stop working to interact with others unless it can help him advance his career in some way. He is the hardest worker I know, but he identifies with his work as a group, using "we" pronouns. He also is very team-based and considers our relationship to be like a "team". It's a common theme in our relationship..."you're on my team, your interests become mine." He also never really had romantic relationships in high school because he was working so hard.
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  2. #2
    Row row row your boat SD45T-2's Avatar
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    I'm going guess sp/so.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  3. #3
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    Apparently so/sp is more personally reserved than sp/so in general.

  4. #4
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    I have recently realized that my knowledge of the social instinct was a little bit inaccurate, and that I am actually a sp/sx and not a so/sx. This makes me wonder if my boyfriend is a sp/so instead of the so/sp that I initially typed him as. He is an ENTJ, and a 3w4. I am an INFP, and either a 9w1 or a 6w7.

    When I first met him, I thought that he was an introvert, because he was so guarded and reserved in demeanor. His fear that he is too 'boring' is an insecurity of his. He isn't "adaptable" like other 3s, and remains consistently poised, formal, and mature, with an intellectual superiority. He is a "made for the workplace" kind of guy, and his social life can struggle because he puts work ahead of everything. He tests as a 1w9 on enneagram tests, though he says he doesn't identify with 1w9 and identifies with 3w4. He is pretty tactful and could probably make a good politician, and doesn't seem to have problems or insecurities in social situations (though that is probably his 3 mask). He feels lonely when nobody else is around, though he doesn't stop working to interact with others unless it can help him advance his career in some way. He is the hardest worker I know, but he identifies with his work as a group, using "we" pronouns. He also is very team-based and considers our relationship to be like a "team". It's a common theme in our relationship..."you're on my team, your interests become mine." He also never really had romantic relationships in high school because he was working so hard.
    I don't think this is enough information to determine what he is. My best guess is that he's either a 1w9 So/Sp or a 3w4 Sp/So. The reason being is that So can have 3-like qualities, but a Social 3 is like a uber 3, which would obvious as hell and not something you would miss. If he were a Social 1 (as well as being a ENTJ BTW) he could mimic certain 3 traits without that being his core type. He could also be a Self-pres 3 which would temper some of the 3 traits and make him mistype as a 1.

    The best way to think about the dominant instinct is as if it's a lacking that has to be counteracted:

    - Social firsts naturally struggle to define the standards and practices of social interactions, connections, expectations, and positions. They have to establish, affirm and/or protect their relational aspect of their lives in order to feel secure.
    - Self-pres firsts naturally struggle to define their personal boundaries and validate their sense of identity and existence. They have to establish, affirm, and/or protect their body and selfhood in order to feel secure.

    As for Sp/So vs So/Sp stackings, it's tricky. I think Sp/So is so little talked about to be fully understood and So/Sp is often misrepresented. I think that people that are Sp/So can be surprising warm and outgoing, and So/Sp can be more reserved than expected. To (speculatively) compare the two:

    - Sp/So is perhaps less adaptable to different social situations, and more plainly idiosyncratic in manner (something they may play up for humorous effect or charm). They're slightly more grounded, practical, frank, direct, deferential, disarming, observant and focussed on the fundamentals in life. Perhaps no more reserved than So/Sp but are better at disguising the fact they're concealing certain things.
    - So/Sp is less personal and distinct in expression and tend to be more elusive in manner. They lean toward being slightly more idealistic/aspirational, cerebral, receptive, tactful, oblique, insightful and expansive in thought. Their tendency to shift and flex to the situation, the breadth with which they apply themselves, as well as their pleasant, inoffensive demeanour can make them hard to pin down.

    If you watch House of Cards, I think Frank Underwood is a good (well, an apt) example of a So/Sp, and Claire Underwood is a good example of a Sp/So. Take no note of their general personalities and the fact that they're both cold, callous, machiavellian bastards - I only mean to compare their the manner with which they engage with others and pursue their goals in life. They both have a diffuse energy about them, but it manifests in different ways.
    Last edited by Southern Kross; 08-28-2014 at 11:13 PM.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte
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  5. #5
    Member Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I don't think this is enough information to determine what he is. My best guess is that he's either a 1w9 So/Sp or a 3w4 Sp/So. The reason being is that So can have 3-like qualities, but a Social 3 is like a uber 3, which would obvious as hell and not something you would miss. If he were a Social 1 (as well as being a ENTJ BTW) he could mimic certain 3 traits without that being his core type. He could also be a Self-pres 3 which would temper some of the 3 traits and make him mistype as a 1.

    The best way to think about the dominant instinct is as if it's a lacking that has to be counteracted:

    - Social firsts naturally struggle to define the standards and practices of social interactions, connections, expectations, and positions. They have to establish, affirm and/or protect their relational aspect of their lives in order to feel secure.
    - Self-pres firsts naturally struggle to define their personal boundaries and validate their sense of identity and existence. They have to establish, affirm, and/or protect their body and selfhood in order to feel secure.

    As for Sp/So vs So/Sp stackings, it's tricky. I think Sp/So is so little talked about to be fully understood and So/Sp is often misrepresented. I think that people that are Sp/So can be surprising warm and outgoing, and So/Sp can be more reserved than expected. To (speculatively) compare the two:

    - Sp/So is perhaps less adaptable to different social situations, and more plainly idiosyncratic in manner (something they may play up for humorous effect or charm). They're slightly more grounded, practical, frank, direct, deferential, disarming, observant and focussed on the fundamentals in life. Perhaps no more reserved than So/Sp but are better at disguising the fact they're concealing certain things.
    - So/Sp is less personal and distinct in expression and tend to be more elusive in manner. They lean toward being slightly more idealistic/aspirational, cerebral, receptive, tactful, oblique, insightful and expansive in thought. Their tendency to shift and flex to the situation, the breadth with which they apply themselves, as well as their pleasant, inoffensive demeanour can make them hard to pin down.

    If you watch House of Cards, I think Frank Underwood is a good (well, an apt) example of a So/Sp, and Claire Underwood is a good example of a Sp/So. Take no note of their general personalities and the fact that they're both cold, callous, machiavellian bastards - I only mean to compare their the manner with which they engage with others and pursue their goals in life. They both have a diffuse energy about them, but it manifests in different ways.
    Once again, another outstanding post from you on one of my threads. I think that your posts are among the most helpful I've seen on this website so far!

    I think you've solidified to me that he is a Sp/So 3w4, though he occasionally wears the clothes of a 1w9 (though not always). He seems to fit the Sp/So description a bit more. I never associated identity/existence with self-pres firsts...makes me realize now why self-pres is so commonly found on these forums.

    I wish I had more information on self pres 3s and self pres types in relationships. I've never had a relationship with a non-sx dom.

  6. #6
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    Once again, another outstanding post from you on one of my threads. I think that your posts are among the most helpful I've seen on this website so far!

    I think you've solidified to me that he is a Sp/So 3w4, though he occasionally wears the clothes of a 1w9 (though not always). He seems to fit the Sp/So description a bit more. I never associated identity/existence with self-pres firsts...makes me realize now why self-pres is so commonly found on these forums.

    I wish I had more information on self pres 3s and self pres types in relationships. I've never had a relationship with a non-sx dom.
    Glad to help.

    Just to add some clarifications...

    3s are part of the identity triad of the Enneagram, so you have to be careful not to mix up those aspects with the instincts. I said that Sp tempers 3-ness in some ways (which it does), but it can be confused with other 3 traits. One thing I know about Self-pres 3s is that their vanity is lack of vanity. In other words their proud and ostentatious about their lack of pride - they may show off about the fact they don't care what others think.

    Also be aware that when I say that Sp is wrapped up in body and identity I mean that in a very broad sense. It's a fear that others or the environment will undermine their poorly delineated sense of self. Depending on the person, they may be trying to safeguard their: comfort, health, autonomy, dignity, privacy, accuracy, reputation, knowledge, individuality etc. This means that they're all the more focussed on drawing a line in the sand and saying, "I'm THIS and not THAT" - it makes them much louder when it comes to defining themselves and their 'separateness'. Social-firsts OTOH often resist doing this (even the So/Sp stacking) because it gets in the way of their ability to harmonize, recognise and respond to dynamics, and to a degree, be everything to everyone. This means they end up transcending clear definitions and limitations of who they are, where they belong, what they're receptive to etc - they're broad and open in nature. Personally, I like being surprising and seemingly contradictory in nature; it keeps others on their toes and shows them I'm more than one thing.

    BTW this site has a pretty good description of type and stacking. Example:

    Three Stacks

    Self-pres/Social

    This subtype is the most reserved and introverted of the subtypes of enneatype Three, and possibly the hardest worker. They generally put a great deal of effort into their work, excelling at whatever they choose to do. They usually do what it takes to rise to the top. There is a strong desire to excel, although the areas chosen may differ widely from one Three to the next. These Threes are competitive in a quiet way. On the high side, they can be very generous with what they have learned and acquired. The driving motivation for their hard work comes down to their fear of not being good enough. Self-pres Threes seem to feel that if they get that promotion, have enough money or buy a big enough house they will then be lovable, admired by others and finally stop feeling like a failure. The false belief that they are what they accomplish is the driving force behind the behavior of self-pres/soc Threes. When healthier, this subtype comes to the realization that all of their hard work won’t change what they fundamentally feel inside. They learn to prioritize other aspects of their lives. They slow down and begin to accept themselves as they are. As the sexual instinct is last, less energy is available for intimate relationships. These Threes can therefore have a hard time with intimacy until they learn to slow down and prioritize their relationships.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #7
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    I have recently realized that my knowledge of the social instinct was a little bit inaccurate, and that I am actually a sp/sx and not a so/sx. This makes me wonder if my boyfriend is a sp/so instead of the so/sp that I initially typed him as. He is an ENTJ, and a 3w4. I am an INFP, and either a 9w1 or a 6w7.

    When I first met him, I thought that he was an introvert, because he was so guarded and reserved in demeanor. His fear that he is too 'boring' is an insecurity of his. He isn't "adaptable" like other 3s, and remains consistently poised, formal, and mature, with an intellectual superiority. He is a "made for the workplace" kind of guy, and his social life can struggle because he puts work ahead of everything. He tests as a 1w9 on enneagram tests, though he says he doesn't identify with 1w9 and identifies with 3w4. He is pretty tactful and could probably make a good politician, and doesn't seem to have problems or insecurities in social situations (though that is probably his 3 mask). He feels lonely when nobody else is around, though he doesn't stop working to interact with others unless it can help him advance his career in some way. He is the hardest worker I know, but he identifies with his work as a group, using "we" pronouns. He also is very team-based and considers our relationship to be like a "team". It's a common theme in our relationship..."you're on my team, your interests become mine." He also never really had romantic relationships in high school because he was working so hard.
    Your boyfriend is a sp/so 3w4, and I guarantee this. The self-preservation 3, is basically the 3 that looks like a 1. The self-preservation/social 3, is basically the work-a-holic that never stops working and they are often times family men. The so/sp 3 on the other hand looks like the ladder-climbing news reporter that you see on TV that looks faker than a $3 bill. The so/sp 3 is the guy that knows everyone who is everyone and is always socially networking and climbing to the top. When I think of the self pres 3, I think of the hard working 50's father type guy that is always working, has decent manners, looks like a 1, and doesn't really even look like a core 3 at all at first glance.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Cloud of Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Your boyfriend is a sp/so 3w4, and I guarantee this. The self-preservation 3, is basically the 3 that looks like a 1. The self-preservation/social 3, is basically the work-a-holic that never stops working and they are often times family men. The so/sp 3 on the other hand looks like the ladder-climbing news reporter that you see on TV that looks faker than a $3 bill. The so/sp 3 is the guy that knows everyone who is everyone and is always socially networking and climbing to the top. When I think of the self pres 3, I think of the hard working 50's father type guy that is always working, has decent manners, looks like a 1, and doesn't really even look like a core 3 at all at first glance.
    How is this different from Sp/Sx 3?
    The only way out is through. The faster you're in, the better.

  9. #9
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    How is this different from Sp/Sx 3?
    The sp/so 3w4 is work-a-holic SJish looking man who constantly is busy with something, but they look like a 1 on the outside. The sp/so 3 tends to be a lot better with networking than the sp/sx 3, and tend to socialize a lot in order to meet their self-pres needs, and make more money. The sp/so 3 is also often concerned with how they are seen socially and tend to often try to get to the top of the social ladder. I've found that sp/sx 3's are often introverts and they almost don't look like 3's at all from first glance. The sp/sx 3's tend to be constantly working like all sp 3's but they tend to put a much stronger emphasis on how they are seen sexually. They often are very big into working out and taking care of themselves as well. They often tend to put a much bigger emphasis on romance as well. Many times, the sp/sx 3 is the 3 that works constantly all day, then comes home and makes passionate love to their wife every night. This is the sp/sx 3 is a nutshell.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloud of Thunder View Post
    How is this different from Sp/Sx 3?
    The sp/so 3w4 is work-a-holic SJish looking man who constantly is busy with something, but they look like a 1 on the outside. The sp/so 3 tends to be a lot better with networking than the sp/sx 3, and tend to socialize a lot in order to meet their self-pres needs, and make more money. The sp/so 3 is also often concerned with how they are seen socially and tend to often try to get to the top of the social ladder. I've found that sp/sx 3's are often introverts and they almost don't look like 3's at all from first glance. The sp/sx 3's tend to be constantly working like all sp 3's but they tend to put a much stronger emphasis on how they are seen sexually. They often are very big into working out and taking care of themselves as well. They often tend to put a much bigger emphasis on romance as well. Many times, the sp/sx 3 is the 3 that works constantly all day, then comes home and makes passionate love to their wife every night. This is the sp/sx 3 is a nutshell.

  10. #10

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    Hi Turtle I enjoyed reading your post it was very organic and generated much excitement within my hole brain quadrant D

    What is the difference between so/sp and sp/so?

    That's an interesting question and I relate to your minds questioning and gravitations to factors like ENTJ, 3w4 9w1, 6w7 and so on as if seeking an understanding of a deeper implicate that orders the ,, shall we say, implicate structures of instinctual flux and differences between the six instinctual variant or variant heads.

    I am not shore there to start so I may just think out aloud and tease out my thought in some order that leads to the clues I am interested in exporting.

    Sp/so and So/sp both sea-saw on ether side of point nine. In a seance they are like the Batman and Robin of the Six Instinctual Variant Head Type Energies.

    Relating in a factual manner to facts and thinking about that they are are relating to seems to be important for both the sp/so and so/sp. And ordering a clear understanding seems to preoccupy the concentration of there respective perspectives in thought. It is something we all do but these people have specialised in developing that style of concentrating...the mind.

    It is as if point nine, if metaphorically speaking was seen as a coin, sp is one face and so is the other side face of the same coin and the nine is sloth fully or vacantly alert to the substance of its own mortal instinctual value (think) of the ( sense think feel ) trio.

    But three into three is important. So is connected to Point: 6 , Point: 7 and Point: 8

    So there is a three part thing between points 1 9 8 and a three part thing between points 6 7 8 and points 3 2 1 for the Sp energy.

    But there is a the Ego point 3 7 8 factor and the supper ego point 6 1 2 factor.

    And the ID points 9 4 5 factor to not be forgotten but left to the side for now.

    So it is getting complex and the notion of positive negative and neutral are becoming helpful to distinguish differences between the basic energies within the grouping of three's and it seems that each point can have more than one function as a negative or positive neutral action active at the point location.

    Any way the interesting thing is that there are distinct differences between sp/so and so/sp and it seems to remind me as a pattern of the molecular structure of Cl- & Na+ and ClNa and h2o

    This may seem a wacky leap form an idea of a coin with two sides una wear of its own power or value in all four parts mortal spiritual and utilitarianism and imperial work capacity, (please remember I am a INFP so I tend to stretch the value of words to meet meanings my NF functions recognise). But I am inviting you to think in three's and four's to help understand the mechanism that may be at work driving the dynamics in play naming the instinctual energies and the nine points of the enneagram.

    Google images are good for looking at Cl- & Na+ & ClNa & H2O

    The interesting thing I see in the image of ClNa is that Cl gives one electron to Na and then there are eight electrons in both Atoms second orbit and Na's third orbit. Note the three sets of eight. I won't wonder of in to the topic of all cells having eight master genes but I will remind that the law of three requires a process of reconciliation for Holy Love to be actualised as an phenomenon actualised within Selfs own experience.

    One abstract way we as enneagram enthusiasts can count to eight is, Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do

    Any way the number of electrons and strong force and weak force parts are interesting and there seems to be a pattern within there interplay 's

    3 6 10 1 17-18 11-10 and so on.

    Another interesting combination may be h2o and Cl because 10 plus 11 = 21 and and at the level of the instincts a value of 21 at all nine points allows for a number patten to take place like a mechanism that involves o clock work like action that interconnects point action with other actions. (Still refining the model and it is still to raw to shear with any more depth).

    The difference between sp/so and so/sp is that there Chee buzzes slightly differently.

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