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  1. #11
    Member Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    This...very much.

    I know two so/sp's and heard them describe our interaction as "intense" and "deep" and it didn't feel like that to me. I can come away from their company still feeling "hungry" while they probably feel satisfied, stuffed, or on a negative tip, overwhelmed and relieved that I'm gone...I don't know. They just didn't/don't want the same kind of intimacy that I do (I admit it's hard...sp/sx creates this kind of feast/famine split). It just doesn't seem to interest them. Maybe that's not right...I don't think they are even aware of it or find it very important. Kinda like how I'm blind to so-instinct stuff. I just don't see it as important at all.

    I find it frustrating and a little lonely.
    I notice this with him, too. But then it's also confusing, because I am the first girl with whom he has connected with (according to him), and so I am wondering how this can be the case. He went to a very preppy school that wasn't very centered on intellectualism, so maybe the kind of girls he knew there didn't really stand still long enough to converse with him about intellectual things.

  2. #12
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    This...very much.

    I know two so/sp's and heard them describe our interaction as "intense" and "deep" and it didn't feel like that to me. I can come away from their company still feeling "hungry" while they probably feel satisfied, stuffed, or on a negative tip, overwhelmed and relieved that I'm gone...I don't know. They just didn't/don't want the same kind of intimacy that I do (I admit it's hard...sp/sx creates this kind of feast/famine split). It just doesn't seem to interest them. Maybe that's not right...I don't think they are even aware of it or find it very important. Kinda like how I'm blind to so-instinct stuff. I just don't see it as important at all.

    I find it frustrating and a little lonely.
    Yep! I relate to this all.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  3. #13
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    I identify with your boyfriend a lot. That's how it is for me when I meet someone that I suddenly click with - it's something I also crave.

    It's a mistake to think Sx has a monopoly on intimacy and an interest in forming strong bonds. Perhaps the kinds of connection Sx desires is simply different in flavour. Sx seems to experience a sort of panic over connections, as if they have to cling on and maintain the intensity at all times for fear of it being taken away. As someone else put it in another thread, Social-doms (and Sx-last in general) don't feel like our bonds are so constantly under threat, so we come across as less... desperate... for the lack of a better word.

    With So/Sp it's about an atmosphere, a vibe, that is conducive to establishing and maintaining relationships with others in the here and now. This can be quite stressful and takes a degree of concentration and effort - much like how maintaining intense bond/feelings can be stressful for Sx-doms (which can make them prone to clingy-ness, or jealousy etc). Therefore, a person who creates a relaxed, pressure-free, fluid atmosphere between us, a kindred spirit that you can have natural, effortless communication with, is the holy grail (and I imagine it's much the same with Sp/So). It takes all the work out of it; instead of constantly evaluating the dynamics, smoothing over problems, adapting to others, and trying to keep in step, you can just talk without worrying or over-thinking it. It's a rare thing that creates a real high that keeps you coming back for more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    Interesting! I am wondering, then, why sx-last is often associated with lack of intimacy/connection to spouse?
    Ignorance. Misinformation.

    Are they referring to physical intimacy, or feeling like their spouse is more like a friend than a lover? Because I could see this being the case with my ENTJ. Intimacy can feel isolating and sad if I don't know that he feels as deeply as I do in the moment.
    You're a INFP with a ENTJ - you're probably going to be more capable with emotional expression than he is.

    It doesn't mean he doesn't feel it, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    Hm, that's another thing I've noticed with him. What he considers to be a close connection with someone can feel like just a casual friendship to them, because he lacks that personable sx-factor.
    Sx-lasts do tend to approach romantic relationships from a friendship angle but this doesn't mean they lack intimacy. It means that it's more about chemistry and mental, emotional, and physical compatibility, than it is about raw attraction. That chemistry can develop into the raw attraction and deep intimacy, because it creates emotional investment. So perhaps what I'm saying is that we need mental connection before the emotional one will form. And those mental aspects can be quite broad. It may involve an intellectual connection, a similar sense of humour, a compatible communication style, common interests or view of the world etc. This may sound cold, like ticking a bunch of boxes, but it's not. For me it's a matter of being able to have stimulating, organic, engaging, conversation with someone as a foundational element. It could be serious or silly, heartfelt or flippant, respectful or provocative in nature - as long as it grabs me. That makes me sit up and take notice. It makes often dormant parts of my mind come alive. It makes me feel close to a person. It makes me feel less alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    This...very much.

    I know two so/sp's and heard them describe our interaction as "intense" and "deep" and it didn't feel like that to me. I can come away from their company still feeling "hungry" while they probably feel satisfied, stuffed, or on a negative tip, overwhelmed and relieved that I'm gone...I don't know. They just didn't/don't want the same kind of intimacy that I do (I admit it's hard...sp/sx creates this kind of feast/famine split). It just doesn't seem to interest them. Maybe that's not right...I don't think they are even aware of it or find it very important. Kinda like how I'm blind to so-instinct stuff. I just don't see it as important at all.

    I find it frustrating and a little lonely.
    It can be hard to get behind the thick wall Sx-lasts put up. We can be guilty of being too politic and inhibited, to the point where we don't even notice that we're dodging a meaningful emotional expression.

    And perhaps your two So/Sp friends meant the felt the content of your interaction created a intense and deep experience - ie. intellectually. I sometimes wonder if So/Sp are more cerebral in nature.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    I don't know about all this and if I'm on the right track. I'm gonna summon @PeaceBaby for some input.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    This...very much.

    I know two so/sp's and heard them describe our interaction as "intense" and "deep" and it didn't feel like that to me. I can come away from their company still feeling "hungry" while they probably feel satisfied, stuffed, or on a negative tip, overwhelmed and relieved that I'm gone...I don't know. They just didn't/don't want the same kind of intimacy that I do (I admit it's hard...sp/sx creates this kind of feast/famine split). It just doesn't seem to interest them. Maybe that's not right...I don't think they are even aware of it or find it very important. Kinda like how I'm blind to so-instinct stuff. I just don't see it as important at all.

    I find it frustrating and a little lonely.
    Hm, this makes me wonder about my own self-typing... I tend to feel more connected to someone than they might to me, but I hate the unevenness, so I will hold back until I get major signs that they are especially enamored of me. A part of me always worries that what I experience as significant is not so significant to them, but perhaps that's the sx insecure stuff @Southern Kross has referred to. Perhaps a spiteful & fearful part of me doesn't want to be the first to let on that they mean a lot to me, because I tend to doubt reciprocation or the ability to impact people as I'd like to. If I open up the floodgates, it tends to overwhelm people though, especially as much of it is negative (being a gloomy 4 and all...), so I may not be giving out enough to make someone else feel things are deep between us, because I tend to absorb a lot & not give them signs of how its affected me. It comes eventually, but I need a really long time to open up that much.

    IDK, I just realized I may have interpreted this wrongly... because now I am thinking of times when people have said rather dismissively, "Oh that's deep", but not in a sarcastic way. It was more as if anything "deep" is silly to them or perhaps too messy. They prefer things more light-hearted & relevant to the present & external world, not to burrow deeply into one another. I admit I've associated that more with sensing or thinking types :X than instinctual variants.

    However, what you describe is also very ENFP. I notice that many ENFPs charm others easily & leave them feeling special, which to the other person signals something deep as they are not made to feel that way very often, but it was a one-way effect. The other person doesn't make the ENFP feel particularly special & so the exchange was an ordinary one for them. ENFJs do a similar thing (it's what drives me nuts about them!).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    This...very much.

    I know two so/sp's and heard them describe our interaction as "intense" and "deep" and it didn't feel like that to me. I can come away from their company still feeling "hungry" while they probably feel satisfied, stuffed, or on a negative tip, overwhelmed and relieved that I'm gone...I don't know. They just didn't/don't want the same kind of intimacy that I do (I admit it's hard...sp/sx creates this kind of feast/famine split). It just doesn't seem to interest them. Maybe that's not right...I don't think they are even aware of it or find it very important. Kinda like how I'm blind to so-instinct stuff. I just don't see it as important at all.

    I find it frustrating and a little lonely.
    Yeah it's really strange how they don't find maintaining close individual connections as important as other things. It just seems really natural for people to want to do that.

    I know a particular sp/so, and he is really really bad about relationships. I used to consider him my best friend. But it's like he just stopped caring one day. He is constantly out making new friends, but the thing is he gets them to thinking that they are "in" or "close" to him. But right at that moment is when he seems to throw them away. I have had some of his friends call/message me asking if he's okay because he hasn't responded to them, but he flat out ignores people a lot.

    When I asked him about how important our friendship was he just responded "I don't know, we're still friends it's fine". But it sure doesn't feel like it, and being ignored constantly to go into self preservation land or to be blown off by hanging out with others whom he probably plans on blowing off later. He probably doesn't even know he does it, truth be told. I'm not saying all sx last people are like this, but I think that this is an extreme in this way and it's affected a lot of people. I've asked sx last people on typology sites and they have admitted to this kind of behavior, but had no clue how destructive it was for others.

    It's like sx last people seem to really value "networking" themselves. Like the typical way of having a security net by knowing a lot of people in an on the surface way. But they don't want to get any closer to those individuals, rather they would rather branch out more to get more secure by being more social. @Southern Kross what do you think of this?
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  6. #16
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Hm, this makes me wonder about my own self-typing... I tend to feel more connected to someone than they might to me, but I hate the unevenness, so I will hold back until I get major signs that they are especially enamored of me. A part of me always worries that what I experience as significant is not so significant to them, but perhaps that's the sx insecure stuff @Southern Kross has referred to Perhaps a spiteful & fearful part of me doesn't want to be the first to let on that they mean a lot to me, because I tend to doubt reciprocation or the ability to impact people as I'd like to. If I open up the floodgates, it tends to overwhelm people though, especially as much of it is negative (being a gloomy 4 and all...), so I may not be giving out enough to make someone else feel things are deep between us, because I tend to absorb a lot & not give them signs of how its affected me. It comes eventually, but I need a really long time to open up that much.
    No, I do the same thing, actually, but for slightly different reasons (only a nuance really). I don't tend to feel connected that often, either, but when I do feel rather wary about potential unevenness, as you put it.

    Perhaps it's a 4w5 or Sp thing.

    IDK, I just realized I may have interpreted this wrongly... because now I am thinking of times when people have said rather dismissively, "Oh that's deep", but not in a sarcastic way. It was more as if anything "deep" is silly to them or perhaps too messy. They prefer things more light-hearted & relevant to the present & external world, not to burrow deeply into one another. I admit I've associated that more with sensing or thinking types :X than instinctual variants.
    Know that feeling...

    However, what you describe is also very ENFP. I notice that many ENFPs charm others easily & leave them feeling special, which to the other person signals something deep as they are not made to feel that way very often, but it was a one-way effect. The other person doesn't make the ENFP feel particularly special & so the exchange was an ordinary one for them. ENFJs do a similar thing (it's what drives me nuts about them!).
    Also true.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Yeah it's really strange how they don't find maintaining close individual connections as important as other things. It just seems really natural for people to want to do that.

    I know a particular sp/so, and he is really really bad about relationships. I used to consider him my best friend. But it's like he just stopped caring one day. He is constantly out making new friends, but the thing is he gets them to thinking that they are "in" or "close" to him. But right at that moment is when he seems to throw them away. I have had some of his friends call/message me asking if he's okay because he hasn't responded to them, but he flat out ignores people a lot.

    When I asked him about how important our friendship was he just responded "I don't know, we're still friends it's fine". But it sure doesn't feel like it, and being ignored constantly to go into self preservation land or to be blown off by hanging out with others whom he probably plans on blowing off later. He probably doesn't even know he does it, truth be told. I'm not saying all sx last people are like this, but I think that this is an extreme in this way and it's affected a lot of people. I've asked sx last people on typology sites and they have admitted to this kind of behavior, but had no clue how destructive it was for others.
    I don't relate to this at all. I'm not good enough with people to play those games.

    I mean maybe it's vaguely possible if I had no idea it was happening.

    It's like sx last people seem to really value "networking" themselves. Like the typical way of having a security net by knowing a lot of people in an on the surface way. But they don't want to get any closer to those individuals, rather they would rather branch out more to get more secure by being more social. @Southern Kross what do you think of this?
    However, I do get this. I would never call myself a "networker", but I have been like this at times. It's not some underhanded, exploitative thing, though. If I was a charming person that made friends easily it might be.

    It only really happened like that when I was in a place surrounded by a group of people on a regular basis (eg. when in the halls of residence at uni, or when I worked in a kibbutz in Israel). It meant I ended up with a lot of acquaintances I enjoyed being around and a few closer friends. Some of those people I wanted to be closer with and some weren't really people I could be close with for one reason or another. I suppose that from the outside it might seem like I'm collecting people but really it's because of my openness and adaptability. Others might not have bothered with such people because they only want particular friends or easy friendships, but I choose to make myself open to all kinds of people and all kinds of relationships. I try not to categorize and define it too much and just get along with people. It's choosing to seize the day, make the most of things, and try and find happiness with what you're doing and who you're with at the time (something that's pretty hard for very shy and idealistic 4 to do naturally). If I can't find someone that I can really connect deeply with, sometimes I have to accept an imperfect interaction and try to enjoy that person's company. Sometimes the only other choice is to be alone and mope about it - I'm just picking the healthier option.

    It is kinda nice though - I have friends from all over the world that I could link up with at any time if I were in their country, for example. Two people (an American and a Canadian) I met in the Kibbutz have even visited and stayed with me here in NZ. I really enjoyed that.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #17
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    I had a relationship with an sp/so. Much like redbone said, it left me hungry and lonely feeling. He also told me that it was the deepest, closest, most intimate relationship he'd ever had. I constantly felt like I was 'pushing' him to get closer, open up, etc. One thing we were, though, was great friends and companions. We did great in social situations together, making people laugh and making friends. He also was terrible at maintaining personal connections, so his friends started keeping in touch with me, and he saw them more as a result. He was also an introvert, so forgive me if I'm blurring those differences.

    Where we struggled, or where I struggled, was in our intimacy. He always felt very far away from me. The most intense feeling I ever felt when we were close was one of protection. We never shared passionate moments, soul spilling conversations where we just went deep and let it all hang out, it was all very...stuffy. Ultimately I wound up like sx starved.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  8. #18
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I don't relate to this at all. I'm not good enough with people to play those games.

    I mean maybe it's vaguely possible if I had no idea it was happening.
    I didn't honestly think you would relate to it but I just wanted to see what you thought. Thanks for the reply. The part where you DID relate to it is my general understanding of sx last, so I'm glad you at least relate to that!
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    (while sx could often be colder and even selfish.)
    Yes, just like how So-dom can be avoidant and contrarian, or how Sp-dom can be self-effacing and risky, when these things happen, it tends to manifest itself in a way more 'passionate' and dedicated way. Perhaps also in a more self-destructive way. It depends on the type as well, unfortunately people tend to forget that.

  10. #20
    Member Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post

    With So/Sp it's about an atmosphere, a vibe, that is conducive to establishing and maintaining relationships with others in the here and now.This can be quite stressful and takes a degree of concentration and effort - much like how maintaining intense bond/feelings can be stressful for Sx-doms (which can make them prone to clingy-ness, or jealousy etc). Therefore, a person who creates a relaxed, pressure-free, fluid atmosphere between us, a kindred spirit that you can have natural, effortless communication with, is the holy grail (and I imagine it's much the same with Sp/So). It takes all the work out of it; instead of constantly evaluating the dynamics, smoothing over problems, adapting to others, and trying to keep in step, you can just talk without worrying or over-thinking it. It's a rare thing that creates a real high that keeps you coming back for more.


    Sx-lasts do tend to approach romantic relationships from a friendship angle but this doesn't mean they lack intimacy. It means that it's more about chemistry and mental, emotional, and physical compatibility, than it is about raw attraction. That chemistry can develop into the raw attraction and deep intimacy, because it creates emotional investment. So perhaps what I'm saying is that we need mental connection before the emotional one will form. And those mental aspects can be quite broad. It may involve an intellectual connection, a similar sense of humour, a compatible communication style, common interests or view of the world etc. This may sound cold, like ticking a bunch of boxes, but it's not. For me it's a matter of being able to have stimulating, organic, engaging, conversation with someone as a foundational element. It could be serious or silly, heartfelt or flippant, respectful or provocative in nature - as long as it grabs me. That makes me sit up and take notice. It makes often dormant parts of my mind come alive. It makes me feel close to a person. It makes me feel less alone.


    It can be hard to get behind the thick wall Sx-lasts put up. We can be guilty of being too politic and inhibited, to the point where we don't even notice that we're dodging a meaningful emotional expression.

    And perhaps your two So/Sp friends meant the felt the content of your interaction created a intense and deep experience - ie. intellectually. I sometimes wonder if So/Sp are more cerebral in nature.
    This explains SO MUCH. You're the best!

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