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  1. #71
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Friendships. Any friendship that is a part of a "group of friends" that you're also a part of. Also it's good that you're asking these clarification questions, because I just realized that one pretty common definition -- i.e. an obligation to obey social rules for the sake of harmony -- is NOT what I was talking about before. As I was referring to it, your social obligations, as they relate to a "clique" of friends, are your obligations to individual members of the group, collectively. When I say "people will miss you when you're gone", I'm thinking of individual people who will miss you for their own personal reasons, because they all individually like you.

    My explanation above is VERY so/sx -- but that's probably because my annoyance with social-last "disappearing" is very linked to my instinctual variants. Since figuring out that I'm so/sx, I've realized that my social scene is very true to type: I tend to collect people I like individually, and form them into a group around me*. So when one individual decides to not participate in things socially, or decides to leave without warning, or some other clueless social thing like that, because "no one will miss (them)" -- they clearly aren't realizing that the group is made up of individual people who care. At best, the reaction is like Qlip's reaction below: aw, they're clueless, that's cute. At worst, it's cause for resentment; we the group members are putting effort into this, by creating occasion to hang out, and you clearly aren't putting in any reciprocal effort.

    Not sure if this is related or not, but I've also had social-lasts bail on completely non-group-oriented, just-the-two-of-us things because they simply weren't in the mood, and they assumed, since I'm the socially savvy person I am, that I'd have back-up social plans and wouldn't mind. Completely baffling, and, when it's happened, hard not to take personally.

    *Just realized my blog is a pretty great example of this.
    Enneagram type matters a whole bunch here.

    To reinforce your: "this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time. "

    I'm a So/Sx too, and I do what you hate as a matter of course, I find the presumptions people make as to why it may be done slightly annoying because it is a point of issue for me and people would not get my motivations right unless I told them (which I would be un-inclined to do). 9 + So dom creates this issue for me so it's not a So last thing, the reasons matter, So last is often about obliviousness, for me it's a hyper-focus on So needs mixing with 9 insignificance which results in a preoccupation to fitting in, yet never actually feeling I do, so staying is uncomfortable. As Cascadeco puts it below, it's an itch I want scratched yet can never seem to, so I disappear from all groups I join either into my own space and introspection, or seeking another group, sometimes I return, sometimes it annoys people, and it certainly hinders relationships but being otherwise feels fake to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Highlighting what I see as really key. Like skylights says, so's have a really good sense of when they do or don't fit in, and what it would take for them to fit in. It doesn't mean though that their authentic self WILL fit in, or that they ever really find a 'group' they feel they actually truly fit in with. Perhaps for so-doms that's like this lifelong mission that they may never find. So there's often a huge dissonance. The awareness of 'fitting in', but also awareness of how being true to yourself means you won't fit in. That sort of thing. (At least my own experience, and probably half of what I'm writing is flavored with e4 stuff too) Also - yeah, the anxiety element. Think so dom's can have an oversensitivity to this, so, at times it can work against them, or, the oversensitivity can result in just being wrong.
    That more than anything, esp the bold, 9 dom + 4 fix makes this a big thing for me. Although I am aware that I can fit in anywhere, there's a massive difference between being free to be authentic and accepted as such, and fitting in because of social skills.

  2. #72
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    "Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on.
    Well then you should just ask
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #73
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    "Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

    Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.
    I'm guilty of a lot of this...but I genuinely think no one cares. People seem obligated to say they missed you, but it's hard to tell when it's genuine or just some stock line.

    But I don't do the flaking on one-on-one stuff. I rarely even do that for group stuff, although I may make a cameo & then leave. I generally just turn things down from the get-go, unless there's a possibility to meet a potential romantic partner. And food &/or alcohol.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Yeah, I think there's definitely a dose of introversion, and also maybe Fi vs Fe to a degree, in what senza describes. For me so-dom goes beyond social pleasantries / 'politeness'. I knew all of the social dynamics / interplay at work, what would rock the boat vs not, and paid attention to that, or knew how to navigate without making myself the black sheep, but I also kept to myself the bulk of the time and would scurry out of work without acknowledging anyone maybe half the time, unless someone caught my eye as I was leaving or I was feeling extra friendly.
    I pick up on some of this, but I either don't care or don't know how to navigate a lot of it. Even if I try & mimic others, it doesn't feel as simple as it looks & it's hard for me to grasp what I did wrong. I end up a black sheep, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Instincts are just primal urges. They don't amount to skill. They subvert the rational thought necessary to plan. It's to be expected that, through trial and error, people gain more skills to complement, subdue, and serve their instincts though. The point is that just because someone wants something doesn't mean they're good at getting it.
    This is what makes it confusing to figure out your type or that of others.

    I really don't feel a skill in any of these areas, but so is my obvious blindspot.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #74
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    "Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

    Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.
    As far as I can tell, nobody will care if I leave the event. My 7w6 so/sx friend will invite me to a party where I don't know anyone, basically ignore me the entire night (beyond the occasional: yo Jeremy, having a good time?), and then when I leave chews me out the next day for "ditching" her.

    That being said, I tend to take "no one will notice my absence" thing way too far. Like I was supposed to go see the Black Keys a while ago with a few friends, and I dropped out because the idea of being at a noisy/moshy concert freaked me out, and when they got upset, I just said: there's still time to invite one of your other friends, I'll give away my tickets for free. I didn't think they would care, and it ended up being this major conflict. I felt bad once I figured out their point of view, but honestly didn't realize I was being hurtful.

  5. #75
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post

    I pick up on some of this, but I either don't care or don't know how to navigate a lot of it. Even if I try & mimic others, it doesn't feel as simple as it looks & it's hard for me to grasp what I did wrong. I end up a black sheep, then.
    Yeah, I can see that. Tbh, it's not that I'm consciously obsessed about it/ prioritizing it, it's just what I naturally notice/ observe/ pick up on. So for me it doesn't take any energy, seeing these patterns and social/group dynamics, interplay between people, power stuff, observing and seeing it in action. Doesn't mean I actually care for it or like it or automatically 'fit in', because I don't, or I don't care to, or it often doesn't line up with who *I* am. But yeah, I can typically avoid sticking out like a sore thumb, like at work for example, where this is most evident as it's for me always been 'just a job' so I know how to be viewed as a good employee in a given company, due to the so-dom stuff I believe. Anyway I suppose that's why it would be my dominant...I don't have to focus to notice it. So, takes little to no 'effort' in that sense.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #76
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    And treacherous, dont forget treacherous

    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
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    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
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  7. #77
    Senior Member mcgooglian's Avatar
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    I'm sp/sx and I recently had a coworker say that I was really good at being social because I was comfortable with people and good at getting them to laugh and my response was just "Because I get paid to be."

  8. #78
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    for 'touch and go' social interactions advantage goes to so/sx imo...able to form strong connections rather quick given their heightened antennae for the interpersonal dynamics between others...more diffusive than sx/so but not as insatiable. still haven't seen a so/sp or sp/so politician win a presidential debate in the public's eye just off a 'moment'...30 second exchange with an audience member was all Clinton needed in contrast to. dole looked like a fish outta water. that's where the particular social intelligence comes in for so/sx...in general socializing pertains to extroversion but so/sx rounds out extroversion with a degree finesse lacking in the other stacks. so/sx over sx/so since sx/so types are much pickier about who they focus their energy on. That ain't to say so/sx types don't mess up a lot...they do. on the inverse since they have an easier to identify with quality for the public they get more get-outta-jail-free cards...

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