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  1. #61
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    What invisible behavior annoys the shit out of you? Curious.
    "Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

    Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    "Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

    Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.
    I have to admit I do this a lot. I also like to leave work without saying bye to people cause I just want to GET OUT.

  3. #63
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    "Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

    Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.
    Yeah, I definitely do all of this. Why does a relationship involve social group time, though? Or, more precisely, what sort of relationships involve social group time? And why does someone have social obligations? What does that even mean?

  4. #64
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I have to admit I do this a lot. I also like to leave work without saying bye to people cause I just want to GET OUT.
    Hmm, but isn't that just introversion? I can't picture an Fi-Dom scrambling to make sure that they've alerted everyone they've managed to rub shoulders with of their absence.

    I kind of want to say that I'm Sp/Sx since barely any of that crosses my mind when I decide to go off on my own. Once the conversation is over, I feel little to no obligation towards casual acquaintances beyond say..giving them a heads up when they miss an assignment if we happen to share a class together. Otherwise, my personal whereabouts and things of the sort are my business.

  5. #65
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Hmm, but isn't that just introversion? I can't picture an Fi-Dom scrambling to make sure that they've alerted everyone they've managed to rub shoulders with of their absence.

    I kind of want to say that I'm Sp/Sx since barely any of that crosses my mind when I decide to go off on my own. Once the conversation is over, I feel little to no obligation towards casual acquaintances beyond say..giving them a heads up when they miss an assignment if we happen to share a class together. Otherwise, my personal whereabouts and things of the sort are my business.
    Yeah, I think there's definitely a dose of introversion, and also maybe Fi vs Fe to a degree, in what senza describes. For me so-dom goes beyond social pleasantries / 'politeness'. I knew all of the social dynamics / interplay at work, what would rock the boat vs not, and paid attention to that, or knew how to navigate without making myself the black sheep, but I also kept to myself the bulk of the time and would scurry out of work without acknowledging anyone maybe half the time, unless someone caught my eye as I was leaving or I was feeling extra friendly.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Yeah, I think there's definitely a dose of introversion, and also maybe Fi vs Fe to a degree, in what senza describes. For me so-dom goes beyond social pleasantries / 'politeness'. I knew all of the social dynamics / interplay at work, what would rock the boat vs not, and paid attention to that, or knew how to navigate without making myself the black sheep, but I also kept to myself the bulk of the time and would scurry out of work without acknowledging anyone maybe half the time, unless someone caught my eye as I was leaving or I was feeling extra friendly.
    Could you elaborate on what you mean by the 'dynamics' of the work place? My attention was mainly on the task at hand when I had my first 'job'.

  7. #67
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Could you elaborate on what you mean by the 'dynamics' of the work place? My attention was mainly on the task at hand when I had my first 'job'.
    Hmm, 'vibe' of place/company culture, dynamics and interplay between certain people, dynamics between one department and another and seeing the effects of that, knowing when speaking up at a meeting would be 'ok' vs when it would be frowned upon and put in a secret black book and gossiped about, and so on. Knowing that certain behaviors are 'tolerated' at a company level whereas others are frowned upon. Reading senior management, which ripples/defines company culture in many ways, so knowing certain things you do will haunt you forever after / you'll be labeled a certain way, vs not. It's essentially knowing how to blend in vs not being aware of these various things and then not knowing what will be viewed negatively by the collective vs not. Ofc a lot of people don't care, which is fine, too, but it does impact whether their job is a smooth ride or not.

    I was aware of this, navigated fine, but at same time wasn't really considered a team player/aligned with the company (in Fe sense).
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  8. #68
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    "Disappearing" -- leaving social events without warning, not speaking to friends for long periods of time because "no one will notice you're gone". Essentially forgetting that people in your social sphere are keeping tabs on you, care about you, and want to know what's going on. Also forgetting that they have social obligations because of that. (It's frustrating to put effort into a relationship with someone, that involves social group time, to have none of that effort reciprocated.)

    Note: this is not all social-lasts, nor is it social-lasts all the time.
    Heh, I have a couple of SO last introverted friends who do this. I'll be at a bar, and they'll just be gone. I think it's endearing, probably because it's so clueless.

    My social instinct is def last, but I do understand about working on maintaining a relationship or a social life. I think that may be the sp aspect of myself kicking in, keep an eye on what is necessary to maintain a posse. But as I've been out in the world, and maybe it's just the area that I'm in, people don't put a lot of effort into their friendships. I've met many a people that I've connected to, and honestly I would hardly see them if I didn't initiate.

    Even those with SO in the mix change priorities quickly when they get busy or somebody else gets into their lives. I may not be invisible, but I could be at any time.

    I also find SO social directives and obligations a bit impersonal. I get invited places by So peeps, just to up their social points, occasionally only to proxy for them while they attend a different group. It makes me feel like currency. But I think it's just that what I value doesn't always get represented in these types of get togethers. You feel like you're giving me the gift of being included, it's a nice impulse, but it doesn't really connect to any of my gratification centers.

  9. #69
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Good explanations, @cascadeco -- thanks! Very thoughtful and much more cohesive than I would have done.
    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yeah, I definitely do all of this. Why does a relationship involve social group time, though? Or, more precisely, what sort of relationships involve social group time? And why does someone have social obligations? What does that even mean?
    Friendships. Any friendship that is a part of a "group of friends" that you're also a part of. Also it's good that you're asking these clarification questions, because I just realized that one pretty common definition -- i.e. an obligation to obey social rules for the sake of harmony -- is NOT what I was talking about before. As I was referring to it, your social obligations, as they relate to a "clique" of friends, are your obligations to individual members of the group, collectively. When I say "people will miss you when you're gone", I'm thinking of individual people who will miss you for their own personal reasons, because they all individually like you.

    My explanation above is VERY so/sx -- but that's probably because my annoyance with social-last "disappearing" is very linked to my instinctual variants. Since figuring out that I'm so/sx, I've realized that my social scene is very true to type: I tend to collect people I like individually, and form them into a group around me*. So when one individual decides to not participate in things socially, or decides to leave without warning, or some other clueless social thing like that, because "no one will miss (them)" -- they clearly aren't realizing that the group is made up of individual people who care. At best, the reaction is like Qlip's reaction below: aw, they're clueless, that's cute. At worst, it's cause for resentment; we the group members are putting effort into this, by creating occasion to hang out, and you clearly aren't putting in any reciprocal effort.

    Not sure if this is related or not, but I've also had social-lasts bail on completely non-group-oriented, just-the-two-of-us things because they simply weren't in the mood, and they assumed, since I'm the socially savvy person I am, that I'd have back-up social plans and wouldn't mind. Completely baffling, and, when it's happened, hard not to take personally.

    *Just realized my blog is a pretty great example of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Heh, I have a couple of SO last introverted friends who do this. I'll be at a bar, and they'll just be gone. I think it's endearing, probably because it's so clueless.

    My social instinct is def last, but I do understand about working on maintaining a relationship or a social life. I think that may be the sp aspect of myself kicking in, keep an eye on what is necessary to maintain a posse. But as I've been out in the world, and maybe it's just the area that I'm in, people don't put a lot of effort into their friendships. I've met many a people that I've connected to, and honestly I would hardly see them if I didn't initiate.

    Even those with SO in the mix change priorities quickly when they get busy or somebody else gets into their lives. I may not be invisible, but I could be at any time.

    I also find SO social directives and obligations a bit impersonal. I get invited places by So peeps, just to up their social points, occasionally only to proxy for them while they attend a different group. It makes me feel like currency. But I think it's just that what I value doesn't always get represented in these types of get togethers. You feel like you're giving me the gift of being included, it's a nice impulse, but it doesn't really connect to any of my gratification centers.
    Maybe this is regional, and/or maybe this is so/sp vs. so/sx, but I don't relate at all to the way you described "social points" and impersonal goals in your last paragraph -- and I'd call my social scene anything but impersonal. Even at its most impersonal, my social scene is all about finding cool people that I like to be around, and being around them as much as possible. It still relies on a "click" with the person. I have little tolerance for forced conversation, and even though I'm good at it, I avoid it as much as possible.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #70
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Good explanations, @cascadeco -- thanks! Very thoughtful and much more cohesive than I would have done.

    Friendships. Any friendship that is a part of a "group of friends" that you're also a part of. Also it's good that you're asking these clarification questions, because I just realized that one pretty common definition -- i.e. an obligation to obey social rules for the sake of harmony -- is NOT what I was talking about before. As I was referring to it, your social obligations, as they relate to a "clique" of friends, are your obligations to individual members of the group, collectively. When I say "people will miss you when you're gone", I'm thinking of individual people who will miss you for their own personal reasons, because they all individually like you.

    My explanation above is VERY so/sx -- but that's probably because my annoyance with social-last "disappearing" is very linked to my instinctual variants. Since figuring out that I'm so/sx, I've realized that my social scene is very true to type: I tend to collect people I like individually, and form them into a group around me*. So when one individual decides to not participate in things socially, or decides to leave without warning, or some other clueless social thing like that, because "no one will miss (them)" -- they clearly aren't realizing that the group is made up of individual people who care. At best, the reaction is like Qlip's reaction below: aw, they're clueless, that's cute. At worst, it's cause for resentment; we the group members are putting effort into this, by creating occasion to hang out, and you clearly aren't putting in any reciprocal effort.

    Not sure if this is related or not, but I've also had social-lasts bail on completely non-group-oriented, just-the-two-of-us things because they simply weren't in the mood, and they assumed, since I'm the socially savvy person I am, that I'd have back-up social plans and wouldn't mind. Completely baffling, and, when it's happened, hard not to take personally.

    *Just realized my blog is a pretty great example of this.

    Yeah, what you say is very so/sx. I'm married to a so/sx so I totally know how that works. Funny thing is, though, I'm not involved in any groups so what you talk about is a non-issue. Ok, the one exception would be my immediate family, and my husband likes to do 'whole family' things which, yeah, I'll do those things too (I mean with him and our kids), and I value them, but it seems to be way more important to him than it is to me. Juggling the four of us and making sure I'm connecting with everyone in the way that I like to can feel a little overwhelming to me.

    One thing I disagree with in what you say is that I don't think sx/sps bail on just the two of us things. I live for just the two of us things. Sp/sx, though, definitely bails. But maybe my husband would disagree with me on this, maybe he would also say what you say.

    It's funny, I don't realize how socially blind I am until social first and seconds start talking about it, and it's like they are talking to me about advanced calculus or something. Seriously clueless. It's like there's this whole other world out there that they see, like what @cascadeco is talking about... mind boggling to me.

    Another example would be, I've been reading Proust the last few months, and all of the social focus, it's just... wow.

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