User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 16 of 16

  1. #11
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    18,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I'm not talking about anybody in particular.. I just happen to post this wondering out of the blue random about things that have occurred to me sometime in the past, having nothing at all to do with the present.. NOTHING
    I know -- you mentioned that before to skylights -- but I'm using examples same as you are. They all can apply to the general.
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    The thing is that to me, this is just a matter of nuance. It's the whole avoidance-of-social-awkwardness thing that acts as an irritant to me. In anybody that I want to spend time with, I require a certain amount of honesty mixed with empathy for what my expectations are, which I try to make clear with my own way of interacting. An invite from a friend that I am on the rocks with to some event where we would just happen to be at the same venue to me smacks of disrespect. From their perspective it may seem like a token to show they care, but for me it feels like they think I have nothing better to do than to bask in their social company from 20 foot away.
    Whereas I would probably see it as disrespectful if that same person DIDN'T invite me. Or at least it would hurt my feelings a bit, because it would mean that they didn't care about me the way I still cared about them. Instinctual variant related communication breakdowns for the win?
    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    I also have a tendency to want to react very badly to being managed. I'm just ornery, and it turns out very bad if I don't keep myself in check. I'm an ENFP, and I know how to test boundaries, and it's my natural inclination just to make everybody as uncomfortable as hell. On the flip side, if someone just tells me, "Look, Qlip. I care for you, but I just need time before we resume our friendship.", then my heart swells with admiration because that shows care to me and I back off. It takes investment to be blunt.
    But what are they supposed to do AFTER they say that? Just ignore you until they decided they want to fully immerse themselves in your friendship again?

    (Asking in part to figure out what to do re: the friend I mentioned)
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #12
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I know -- you mentioned that before to skylights -- but I'm using examples same as you are. They all can apply to the general.
    I was trying to be overly protesting there.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Whereas I would probably see it as disrespectful if that same person DIDN'T invite me. Or at least it would hurt my feelings a bit, because it would mean that they didn't care about me the way I still cared about them. Instinctual variant related communication breakdowns for the win?
    It would seem so. On a level, I appreciate an invite, but the whole social aspect of a party or whatever isn't necessarily enough to make it worth my effort, depends on what's going on and the people there, etc. But in certain cases an invite feels like an empty gesture.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    But what are they supposed to do AFTER they say that? Just ignore you until they decided they want to fully immerse themselves in your friendship again?

    (Asking in part to figure out what to do re: the friend I mentioned)
    I'm probably a very idiosyncratic person, but I suppose there's a chance in hell I could at least represent my type. I don't know. The thing is, as an SP, I'm very protective of my resources. It relaxes me to degree to know where they should be spent and being clear about it is something I really appreciate. I miss on finer social cues, and that has a lot to do with why I tend to push boundaries, they tell me more about what's going on, and I get a clarity from baring the real situation.

    For me, the best way to show you care is just to check up every once in a while, share some info, by text or whatever. Distance can be maintained in tone and in space, but care is shown satisfactorily to me by just showing that I'm on your mind occasionally, up until the point that you think some sort of friendship can be fully expressed. But, I could see how this may not work with everybody, but maybe those people are best left alone.

  3. #13
    Honeyed Water thoughtlost's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Enneagram
    N/A
    Posts
    750

    Default

    *shrugs* for me, an So dom, it depends on YOUR own feelings, really. I don't generally initiate interaction (I can ...it happens), but if I do or if you do and you do a lot of confiding in me and you start to feel close to me, I will let that be. I don't think I would dump you to chase after someone else who is more interesting ...but at the same time, I never expected or tried to build a relationship with you or anyone for that matter. If a meaningful relationship happens ...then it just happens with what feels like little effort on my part because you probably intrigue me a lot, like a really really really good movie. But most likely, we're in a relationship because YOU don't care that I act like a fucking maniac. Also, ...I am lazy as hell; I don't care to be like "I really appreciate you and I want to invest in a relationship with you ...so ask me how I am doing once in a while or and I'll invite you to a party so we can spend time together and share experiences together"

    ...Oh and another thing to note: if you invite me to dinner... I would go to dinner with almost anyone... so yes, you'll be disappointed once you realize that I am only hanging out with you because it's fun to wonder the streets and eat Korean food, not because I truly care to spend time with you specifically.

    I can see how it seems like an So dom and extrovert may be leading you on because I am chill and friendly/sparkly with anyone ...it's never indicative of where you stand with me.

  4. #14
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtlost View Post
    *shrugs* for me, an So dom, it depends on YOUR own feelings, really. I don't generally initiate interaction (I can ...it happens), but if I do or if you do and you do a lot of confiding in me and you start to feel close to me, I will let that be. I don't think I would dump you to chase after someone else who is more interesting ...but at the same time, I never expected or tried to build a relationship with you or anyone for that matter. If a meaningful relationship happens ...then it just happens with what feels like little effort on my part because you probably intrigue me a lot, like a really really really good movie. But most likely, we're in a relationship because YOU don't care that I act like a fucking maniac. Also, ...I am lazy as hell; I don't care to be like "I really appreciate you and I want to invest in a relationship with you ...so ask me how I am doing once in a while or and I'll invite you to a party so we can spend time together and share experiences together"

    ...Oh and another thing to note: if you invite me to dinner... I would go to dinner with almost anyone... so yes, you'll be disappointed once you realize that I am only hanging out with you because it's fun to wonder the streets and eat Korean food, not because I truly care to spend time with you specifically.

    I can see how it seems like an So dom and extrovert may be leading you on because I am chill and friendly/sparkly with anyone ...it's never indicative of where you stand with me.
    Nah, I never felt like anybody was leading me on. I'm good at sensing real connection. I don't respond to apathy and I disdain false apathy, enough that I wouldn't feel strongly enough to wonder about such a 'relationship'. No offense, but it sounds like you have some serious defenses up.

  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip
    It's the whole avoidance-of-social-awkwardness thing that acts as an irritant to me.
    This is interesting to me. Why? I don't like tit-for-tat social games, or cliqueyness, or other such middle school behavior, but I feel like I generally try to avoid situations that are likely to be unpleasant - 3rd wheel, very different politics at a politically-charged time of year, exes, etc. Is it the aspect of someone else "pre-selecting" your situation for you that is bothersome?

    I am mulling on how I deal with social awkwardness and gatherings... I think in general I try to be reasonably kind but avoidant when I do not like people... I prefer to avoid awkwardness altogether and if I am in charge I will try to arrange it so that others do not have to deal with awkwardness unless they choose to - avoiding situations that would lend themselves to 3rd wheel, exes, people in-fighting, etc. I figure that people can always seek and find their own battles if that is what they desire, regardless of my arrangement, but I try to avoid catalyzing conflict. In my own mind this is conscientiousness towards people, not manipulation/management, though I suppose it could be termed that. There is no underhandedness or malintent about it, just trying to avoid forcing people into situations that would make them feel uncomfortable.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Sanjuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    MBTI
    Ne
    Enneagram
    468 sx/so
    Socionics
    :-( None
    Posts
    822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Ehhh.. now that I think of it, mostly it's all because I'm being downgraded from being a romantic interest. The whole thing confuses this ENFP, mostly because it seems like during the SO courting process that I've been involved in, it's always been in the guise of friendliness and group activity, so I don't quite get why that can't just resume in similar form after its ended. But it always ends up that I'm on a third tier social calendar, and it bothers me that the 'friend' part was never really about being friends.

    But, it seems like they want to keep you on some list somewhere anyway, like on some sort of back burner or something. This is alien to me, mostly because friends to me are people who have a regular and persistent presence. Everyone else is just... everyone else to me.
    I haven't actually noticed the phenomenon you mentioned in your OP, at least as being related to social-first extraversion. But I do notice the phenomenon quoted here--I've often felt like a "backup" friend, or The Friend I'll Use When Everyone Else Fails. I assumed it had something to do with me, because I suck, because I'm not likeable enough, because I'm a 4w5, or whatnot.

    I agree with your outlook on friendship, but find it extremely rare that someone reciprocates.

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] Interactions with INFJs
    By Ardea in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-19-2010, 05:00 AM
  2. [ENFJ] E/INTJs interacting with ENFJs
    By Harlow_Jem in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 74
    Last Post: 12-22-2008, 09:19 AM
  3. Replies: 88
    Last Post: 12-08-2008, 03:00 PM
  4. [INTJ] INTJs interacting with others
    By Natrushka in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-20-2007, 04:30 AM
  5. Fe/Fi interactions with Te/Ti
    By proteanmix in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-20-2007, 10:20 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO