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  1. #101
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    Vilku, how exactly do you come to these "insights", such as the one below? How do you piece together the information?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    its also an unheathy sx so behaviour to attempt to teach others how things are. ive recognized, every sx so does it when we lose our sense, which is sp, it gives us grounding, an understanding of reality. so we wouldnt be too obsessed with something irrelevant.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I thought about this for a while. I am going to have to say that it's cause most INFP's I k49204b5bnow are E4ish and E1ish by integration

    Most ISFP's no matter what their type...but especially in E9's are just cynical....I have just observed this. I really can't think of a good reason yet. I'll have to ask one lol

    INFP's still seem to have a glimmer of hope and such in their eye...probably because of E4 ness








    Ha ha I edited it. I re-read what I wrote and it could have been interpreted that way. Sorry I was sleepy when I wrote that lol.

    I was speaking of ISFP's in general

    (Although I do think E9's would be he hardest to pinpoint down as an sx- dom now that I think of it It's seems like a contradiction to the poor E9)

    -------

    ...you don't have to go away

    And I can see a little socionics SEE going on...

    But I dunno about MBTI ISFP or INFP

    If you are 6w7 I would think counterphobia is strong in you, is that so?

    If it's not strong then I would see 8 in your tritype.

    Which is why I wouldn't have considered ISFP for you.....even though I do see the Fi....
    Well I am definitely a counterphobic 6 and have 8 as my gut fix. I am sx/so, SEE Fi and am on the Jungian Fi Te axis of evil. Of all these things I am certain.

    We can skip mbti altogether if it suits you.

  3. #103
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Well I am definitely a counterphobic 6 and have 8 as my gut fix. I am sx/so, SEE Fi and am on the Jungian Fi Te axis of evil. Of all these things I am certain.

    We can skip mbti altogether if it suits you.
    Yea for now we can skip it. I may randomly come to a conclusion of my opinion one day and let u know lol
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  4. #104
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing_Queen View Post
    @Halla74

    You're the most intelligent and wise person who posted on this thread so far. I'd post my favorite bits but I'd end up quoting your whole post anyway, so yeah.
    Thank you very much; I appreciate that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing_Queen View Post
    Great patience too, I'm clearly not there yet, but you set a great example.
    Patience comes with age and experience; you will have more and more as time passes.

    You're very intelligent and bright. It's possible that you are "high geared" - and if that's the case I totally get that, that's my "wiring" too. It's great to have such energy and drive, but it does make being patient difficult at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing_Queen View Post
    I think you gave much better advices to @Vilku then I ever could. I just get so fed up I keep on trying to make him see sense. I should know it's futile. People will think what they want to think, so let it be.
    Believe me; I've made a lot of mistakes over the years, and tried to learn from them all in the hopes of not making the same mistakes twice, and for the sake of being able to have a chance to help others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing_Queen View Post

    EDIT> And about this:

    You may wanna take care with what you say about other people beliefs. You think this is "science fiction" and you have every right to that. But just because most people believe aliens don't exist, that men really did go to the moon, ghosts are fiction etc, it doesn't make them right.
    I believe you read more into that part of my reply than I intended it to stand for.
    From my perspective, the conversation was going off on a tangent when the above was discussed.
    I oversimplified it in an attempt to get the conversation back on track. That's it.
    Yes, I can be blunt at times.
    But, if you read the entirety of my response to Viklu, it is civil and supportive.
    So, focusing in on one line of it without full understanding of its intent is going to skew my reply, and in this case your perception of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing_Queen View Post
    It's a question of belief, it doesn't have to be proven.
    Agreed, but that's not where I was going with that comment, at that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing_Queen View Post
    And arrogant, much? Maybe I spoke too soon and you're not that wise.
    Actually, I'm not arrogant at all.
    I don't think you know me well enough to make a statement like that, but that's not for me to decide.

    And as far as me being wise (or not), I've learned as much as I could over the course of my life and applied it as best as possible to my endeavors and my relationships with others.
    IMHO, I have a long way to go. There's a lot to learn in this life, and a lot of different ways to apply that knowledge - sometimes it turns out well, and others not so much, but that is part of the journey, and I'm only halfway through mine (or say the statisticians think, we'll see what happens).

    Have a great day!



    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    i think what halla ment with science fiction, is, that im too consumed by _my_ explanations. instead of looking at it more objectively. i think the more objective explanation, is, that i read the other persons super ego, which i misinterprete as their mind. (i often take some things as so overly obvious that i dont even have a name for them. like guilt tripping, i thought its always so obvious when people do it, that it doesnt deserve to be mentioned at all. thats why i never knew what it meant to guilt trip, despite how obvious it was to me, lols. too obvious, you see, is dismissed.)
    Yes, that's where I was trying to land with my earlier reply, but apparently was a bit off course.
    I meant no offense; thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

    Have a great day!



    -Halla74
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  5. #105
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    Vilku, how exactly do you come to these "insights", such as the one below? How do you piece together the information?
    a pattern of behaviour that ive observed. my data of unhealthy sx so's: me, an isfp and an entp. healthy sx so's: me at my best, an istp 7w6, entp 9w1, an infp (could be more)

    but basically, the pattern is, that an unhealthy sx so _expects_ others to agree with them, and they arent open to arguments. they will just crush any deviating opinions or disregard them entirely without consideration.

    a healthy sx so doesnt assume anything. they say what they think, without expecting anything.
    unhealthy = close minded pseudo rational
    healthy = open minded, and appears actually very irrational due the open mindedness, but thats just us knowing that the way you explain things isnt as relevant as actually understanding them.

    i think im nearing health now, im starting to realize that the theory just doesnt matter ape shit. if you actually understand things, then what the fk does it matter how you explain it? this explanation focus drives me into forgetting what really is, as i try to explain something _abstract_ rather than something _actual_.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    "I can actually quote your posts to prove you did say that, yet you keep claiming I "misunderstand you". There's no misunderstanding, you called ESFJ typical behavior "retarded" three times. "

    ahem, you claimed i claimed _Se_ retarded. i didnt. now what has the esfj thing to do with that? =|
    I'll say it for the last time: ESFJ are primarily Fe users, yes, but Se is their second function. They are sensors. You called an ESFJ retarded three times and later claimed you only had problems with sensors.

    What do you want people to think? You may have different thoughts in your head but people can't read minds, they'll judge you by what you say or in this case, write.

    Which is why @Halla74 was right, you should think before you hit post, you said it yourself you're not that good at expressing your thoughts online.

    and i didnt imply there being anything negative to retardedness. wuite the opposite, your just assuming worst. one day some week ago, i saw a retard walking like a zombie, it made me laugh so hard, it made me so, so happy. whats wrong with being delighted by others?
    I didn’t said you saw literally retarded people (mental handicapped) as bad anywhere in my post. I said you use the word “retarded” to describe people/things people say way too often and that’s not nice.

    Assuming the worst it’s what you said you do, I don’t.

    "Also I can see now that you're typing problems re related to your keyboard. That's why you used "_" to separate your words, right?"

    thats a method of emphasis. something i can use universally everywhere, unlike bolding nd that, so yeah, i prefer [B]universal methods[B/].
    "Universal methods"? I've never seen anyone use _ to separate words unless it was in a username, URL or to make emoticons. I'm genuinely curious as where else it's used.

    "People have their moments of course, but no Introvert normally feels what you described, so that means you're an E."

    or maybe it could just be lack of compassion, because ive never really been loved by anyone so then when i introspect, the pain surfaces.. and im just misinterpreting this need of compassion as a need of socializing? idk =S..
    Introspection =/= depression.

    Needing compassion is indeed different from a desire to socialize. But what do you see as "socializing"?

    although its true, i feel the most energized after an instense conversation. an sx thing perhaps?
    No, it's not a sx dom thing. If we were to use Ennegram, it'd be a So dom trait.

    I think it's more indicative of personality type, though. My type happens to be one of the biggest chatterboxes of MBTI, and I noticed the descriptions are in general right about what types like to talk the most and what they wanna talk about.

    "What made you think you might be an ENFJ?

    And remember, you don't have to fit every word in the description to be one. Most MBTI articles are written by prejudiced Intuitives who bias their tests against Sensors because they thin their lesser beings. So you can't really trust these descriptions 100%.

    You're much better off reading material on Cognitive Functions, they actually describe your values and that's more who we are then how we act. Unfortunately most of the texts are really long and difficult, but I found out my type after reading two great pieces. I can post the links if you'd like, after you find out your Ennegram type. "

    yes, i think so too. its best to talk to actual people and learn through experience.
    yes, do post.
    this might be biased logic, but heres my interpretation anyways: (despite the fact that i dont realte with _any_ type, the nfj's seem closest however.)
    Te's have shared standards, such as learning by same methods as others, combined with fi, personal morals. i have more of universal morals, that i could say are fool proof, as long as i actually follow them. and ive always learned things my own way, its a Ti thing.
    You are right about Fi being about personal morals. And having universal morals is indicative of Fe.

    But you don't have the difference between Te and Ti very clear. You know they're different, but you are wrong on the what makes them so.

    Te has standards, but so does Ti. Every function has, they're only different. You've said before "another Te user wants everybody to think like them" but that's not true. What happens it's that we are concerned with facts and when we see something very wrong we have to correct it, it's irresistible.

    Learning things your own way is not necessarily a Ti thing. I've been self taught for more than 10 years, I've learn 4 languages on my own and have a lot of trouble in school. I hate receiving lessons in general and prefer to come to my own conclusions based on actual experiences and observations. That method sounds a lot like what you've said you do , and I'm a Te user.

    So you might be a Ti person, but not for these reasons.

    im as nutty as a feeler. if i feel like im type a, then thats what i believe in. -.- (it _is_ based on logic, but i often take shortcuts in my "logic". because im so impatient, and want answers instantly. whenever i face a problem, i allow my frustration and anger to consume me until an answer pops into my mind. doesnt work always.. -..-)
    You don't say :big grin:

    Seriously, I wanted to point this out a hundred posts ago but always forgot!!! Yeah, you're obviously in a rush to find an answer, but that's exactly what makes it impossible!

    i take my responsibility of finding my place and contributing enough to sustain myself in this society my primary goal, a Je user thing id guess. ive always taken my school too seriously, despite the fact that i remember none of thei nformation they teach cause i consider it useless.
    First part does sound like a J thing, but not remembering information you find useless, that's more of a N thing. We are creative types, if something it's pointless we will always ask "Why?"

    if i dont think im going to a good direction, then ill give myself absolutely no fun time at all. and if i do, i do it to make myself more skillful at something. i heavily restrain my imagination, trying to be realistic, despite how much i love fantasizing about the unreal. more unreal, the better.
    N through and through.

    You're repressing your imagination? That's terrible!!!

    You should find an outlet like writing, drawing, painting, singing etc, so you don't let it run wild, but don't supress it. It's gonna eat you from the inside.
    enfj's seem to relate things such as family, place you live, and other details i consider completely irrelevant to my identity as somehow relevant, so it makes me doubt that im an enfj. like i told one enfj that my mother is a capitalist, he instantly got all bewildered and asked in an angry tone looking at my eyes: "are you a capitalist!!?" xD..
    You are correct, that's an unchangeable ENFJ trait, it's their natural worldview. Indeed I was typed as ENFJ twice online but when I got to that part I knew it was impossible, I have absolutely no roots anywhere.

    dont know though, my sample ground of enfj's is inexistent.
    You mean you don't actually know an ENFJ in real life?
    one Fe thing: my empathy is involuntary. as long as im emotionally open, ill suck up everyone elses problems.
    Interesting, I'm exactly the same except I don't soak up their problems, I soak up their energy. If someone with a bad vibe stays close to me for long, I can fall ill.

    on the ennea: my general best problem solving strategy is to use the frustration/anger i mentioned to motivate my brains into finding an answer from within. [B]seems like both an Ni and 5w4 integrating to eight thing[/]B? like when i was better, always when i forgot a word, i would just get all angry in my head and search relentlessly until i found it. and thta habit provided me an incredible vocabulary at the time, which has diminished by now.. i know the words are there, but ive lost connection to them.
    And you're back to where you began, trying to relate Ennegarm and MBTI at any cost. I will not say anything else on the matter, clearly it's a futile attempt.

    "That's indeed a different thing. But have you come up with this routine yourself? Why?

    It's important to know if we came up with routines ourselves or if we are only conditioned to it thanks to our upbringing, going to a boarding/rigid school, having to adapt to live on our own etc."

    other peoples routines never stuck to me. ive always had my own, more strict than other peoples standards. it started around age 6 with hand washing, keeping my toys clean, requiring my friends to always wash their hands before they can play with my toys. it still applies. =) (but i usually rather just clean the things my friends touch after they leave. and they say they have "clean" hands. well, not clean enough clearly. -.-) i sometimes push my standards on others if mine are more efficient, and deal with the same problem. it also annoys the hell out of me if other people believe in silly things and demand me to behave some way because of their stupid beliefs.
    So you have OCD. Yep, usually a J thing. I don't think I've ever met a P who had it.

    im also normally quite rigid with what i expect from other people, but since my head getting messed up, i dont believe in my own morals anymore. i pretty much just absorb the morals of whoever i am with.
    You mean your moral expectations, right?

    That's very dangerous.

    "I can understand that. I feel the same way. Since I'm an ENFP and you might be an ENFJ, it could be an ENFx thing."

    ive noticed, other sx so's seem to have problems with such trivial sp things too. being an intuitor only makes it even worse. (referring to the busses thing<<), and the bothering thing, yeah, prolly.
    You tell me.

    "That's understandable. Introspection is about looking inside of yourself, focusing on you and not others, living inside of your head.

    But if you spend too much time there, you loose touch with the outside and can't connect the dots. You'll read a hundred pages on something but won't be able do make sense of it. I've been there, done that, never wanna come back."

    hm.. ive been very external focused the past few years, reading reading and reading, but lost the ability to internalize it due losing connection to my experience. thus the theories were without grounding. for me, looking inside does seem to make everything more clear, but like i said before, its the pain i eventually rediscover that stops my pursuit. 5w4 descriptions say 5w4's get all lost if they dont detach themselves from the reality, it seems like what i experience. since youre an 8, 5 is disintegration, so its the worst thing you could do.
    Reading is not necessarily external thing. Not if you're reading about yourself or at least on information regarding what type you might be. You're still mostly inside of your head.

    You didn't ask my question: are you're sure about your Ennegram now? What did you use to come to this conclusion?

    since i strongly suspect 8w7 is my third ennea potentially, i can see how others scrutinizing me caused to me doubting myself and becoming thus very introspective in a negative way, losing connection to outside.
    Right.

    "So you're sure your type is 5w4? How did you find out, through a test or reading? I'm curious, you've said you've been wrong many times.

    That would explain your online behavior so far. I really love to help people, I also like challenges so that's why I tried to help you for so long. You seemed to need it and it was interesting.

    I feel really stupid wasting my time with you if you didn't really mean to learn anything.

    But it's a lesson learnt. Never again.

    About the shadow type thing:if you don't care to understand, then I don't care to explain.

    Peace out."

    dont assume too quick. =|
    i do am honestly trying to learn all this time, its just that i fail at doing it at times. thats why i call it "learning".
    especially now that im having one of these introspective phases again. so im actually genuinely able to learn.

    and the link you shew clearly said its Si Te thats your shadow. elaborate me?

    and [B]when im disconnected from myself, i dont realize im not learning things[B/]. i would never want to do that kind of repetitive waste of time consciously.
    Technically, If we were to assume every piece of the MBTI theory to be right, ISTJ would be my shadow type. But as I've said before, MBTI sucks when compared to Jung's original theory. Socionics gets Jung much more than the MBTI creators ever did, which is why most people prefer it to MBTI.

    I do too, it's much more open minded and there are actual subtypes to each different kind of leading function. So there are Ne-ENFPs, Fi-ENFps, Ti-INTJs, Ne-INTjs etc.

    It's magical.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #107
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    a pattern of behaviour that ive observed. my data of unhealthy sx so's: me, an isfp and an entp. healthy sx so's: me at my best, an istp 7w6, entp 9w1, an infp (could be more)

    but basically, the pattern is, that an unhealthy sx so _expects_ others to agree with them, and they arent open to arguments. they will just crush any deviating opinions or disregard them entirely without consideration.

    a healthy sx so doesnt assume anything. they say what they think, without expecting anything.
    unhealthy = close minded pseudo rational
    healthy = open minded, and appears actually very irrational due the open mindedness, but thats just us knowing that the way you explain things isnt as relevant as actually understanding them.


    i think im nearing health now, im starting to realize that the theory just doesnt matter ape shit. if you actually understand things, then what the fk does it matter how you explain it? this explanation focus drives me into forgetting what really is, as i try to explain something _abstract_ rather than something _actual_.
    This description fits anyone of any Ennegram type and dom when close minded. It’s not a Sx/So exclusively thing.

    I'm glad to know you're getting better, but try and find some sort of therapy so you don't enter the roller coaster gain.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #108
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    I keep reading the last posts first so my replies are out of order...

    Why does that bother me so much?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #109
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    @Halla74

    You quoted something I wrote; perhaps you're right. It just seems that when I come off with my natural vibe to others, it scares them away? It seems. Now perhaps Im the one who is shy and thinks they are being scared away when it is, in fact, I who is scared of them! What a head trip. I think you're right though; its best to just go with your natural energy rather than trip yourself out over such issues!

  10. #110
    Senior Member Dancing_Queen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Thank you very much; I appreciate that.



    Patience comes with age and experience; you will have more and more as time passes.

    You're very intelligent and bright. It's possible that you are "high geared" - and if that's the case I totally get that, that's my "wiring" too. It's great to have such energy and drive, but it does make being patient difficult at times.
    I'm working on it. And yes, sometimes my mind gives me heaven, sometimes hell .

    Believe me; I've made a lot of mistakes over the years, and tried to learn from them all in the hopes of not making the same mistakes twice, and for the sake of being able to have a chance to help others.
    I hear you, I'm also happy to be able to do the same in certain situations.

    I believe you read more into that part of my reply than I intended it to stand for.
    From my perspective, the conversation was going off on a tangent when the above was discussed.
    I oversimplified it in an attempt to get the conversation back on track. That's it.

    Yes, I can be blunt at times.
    But, if you read the entirety of my response to Viklu, it is civil and supportive.
    So, focusing in on one line of it without full understanding of its intent is going to skew my reply, and in this case your perception of me.
    I understand wanting to stay on topic, talking to @Vilku drives me crazy sometimes as anyone can see lol, but I still think there were better ways to do that then that.

    As open minded as I am about most things, I’m quite rigid when it comes to how people express themselves. That's my intolerant side and obviously it can cause riffs.

    I stand corrected.

    Agreed, but that's not where I was going with that comment, at that time.
    Got it.

    Actually, I'm not arrogant at all.
    I don't think you know me well enough to make a statement like that, but that's not for me to decide.
    Indeed I don't know you, but if you read correctly I said "Arrogant, much?". I meant you're statement, not you. It sounded arrogant in itself, at least to me.

    And as far as me being wise (or not), I've learned as much as I could over the course of my life and applied it as best as possible to my endeavors and my relationships with others.
    IMHO, I have a long way to go. There's a lot to learn in this life, and a lot of different ways to apply that knowledge - sometimes it turns out well, and others not so much, but that is part of the journey, and I'm only halfway through mine (or say the statisticians think, we'll see what happens).
    I meant to say wise people don't make less of other beliefs, but it's clear I misunderstood you, so forget it.

    Have a great day!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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